How to Start and Scale Your Coaching Business: Expert Tips from Angie and John
The Business of Coaching: Vision, Strategy, and Avoiding Costly Mistakes
Angie and John discuss the dos and don’ts of building a coaching business, reflecting on how they started with little guidance and often spent money on marketing and setup that didn’t work. They emphasise creating a clear vision of what “success” looks like (lifestyle solopreneur vs. scaling with staff), understanding finances and time constraints, and following a general progression from one-to-one coaching to groups and then scaling. They warn against getting distracted by non-priorities, overspending without a strategy, and growing too quickly, sharing an example of a startup that scaled fast and had to lay off its team. They critique coaching “job” postings that are actually franchises or MLM-like models, urging due diligence, and stress the value of trustworthy mentorship plus expert advice on legal structure and tax efficiency.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Business of Coaching
01:36 Starting Without a Handbook
03:44 Roadmaps and Realities
06:50 Vision and Growth Stages
11:24 LinkedIn Coaching Schemes
13:46 Franchise vs MLM Warning
20:05 Scaling Too Fast Lessons
25:36 Spend With Strategy
27:01 Pay Coaches and Value People
30:24 Taxes, Mentors and Wrap Up
Want to contact the show? You can leave us a voicemail. It's free to do, and we might feature you on our next episode. All you need to do is go to https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast and leave us a message. You can also find our clips and full episodes on the exclusive Coaching Clinic YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@coachingclinicpodcast
You can send us a video or voice message on LinkedIn:
John's LinkedIn Profile or go to PresentInfluence.com for coaching enquiries with John
Angie's LinkedIn Profile or visit AngieSpeaks.com
2023 Present Influence Productions Coaching Clinic: scale your business, acquire high ticket clients & master coaching skills 86
Transcript
Angie (2): you and I have been having
some really interesting conversations
2
:John: Oh, we have?
3
:Angie: right.
4
:Less about actual coaching and more
about the business of coaching.
5
:Right?
6
:Good.
7
:Dos and don'ts, I think is what
it really came down to, right?
8
:John: Yeah, which, interestingly
has reflected some conversations
9
:I've been having elsewhere as well.
10
:So very interesting that that
should come up for us too.
11
:Angie: I think it's interesting, for me,
when I started, when I wanted to begin
12
:and start a business, I had this desire,
and I wanna say this appropriately, but It
13
:was almost if I was opening a storefront,
a brick and mortar, would it, would
14
:have furniture and details and curtains.
15
:And so how did that translate
to a business that I wasn't
16
:structuring that way.
17
:I was gonna be doing it from home and
in my office, and I had this desire
18
:to have all of the things meaning.
19
:I need, an admin or somebody to
answer the phones, and I need somebody
20
:to handle all of my marketing.
21
:And so my intention was what I believed
to be the right way to start a business.
22
:And how do you think that worked out?
23
:John: Maybe better than
it, my version of that.
24
:Um, I, before to you and, and to our
audience as well on previous episodes
25
:that, did not have much of a clue what I
was doing when I started out as a coach.
26
:I think many coaches were in that
position of having come from,
27
:A professional background where you've
been an employee for a company to
28
:then come to working for yourself,
either completely for yourself or
29
:as a contractor or, some sort of
combination things look very different.
30
:Things are pretty different
when, you are, self-employed,
31
:when, are responsible for it all.
32
:And it doesn't, well, maybe
now it does, but it didn't
33
:come with a handbook back then.
34
:You really did have to try and figure it
out for yourself and it was very hard.
35
:It was hard to find the people who,
'cause there weren't so many coaches
36
:around there, especially, there weren't
so many business coaches for sure.
37
:harder to find the people who could
give you the professional guidance.
38
:If you were lucky, you could probably find
a business mentor, and maybe if you're
39
:well connected, that would all work out.
40
:But, for, many of us, myself included,
it was, like trying to find a
41
:light switch with a blindfold on,
42
:Angie: Yeah.
43
:And so that's the funny part is that
you are right, my point about how I
44
:envisioned starting a business or having
a business, not even just starting.
45
:What did I want it to look like?
46
:I didn't have a clue.
47
:I had nothing to compare it to.
48
:my experience at that time was
vastly different than, today.
49
:And I thought I knew, but
I mean, something you said.
50
:There wasn't a handbook.
51
:Now everybody in their, families
really are like, here's your booklet.
52
:Here's your step by step process on
how to become a successful coach.
53
:John: seven figures in
24 hours as a coach.
54
:Angie: Oh my gosh.
55
:I just saw something the other day from
a pretty well-known coach actually, that
56
:was like, a hundred, there was an M in
there and I was like, are you kidding me?
57
:and, learning to do
the process in 90 days.
58
:And it's, here's the thing, I am a
believer that there is a roadmap, right?
59
:And John and I literally, It wouldn't be
the dos, it would be the don'ts, right?
60
:Just follow the don'ts if you can do that.
61
:But the thing is that list continues
to grow and so for example, things I
62
:didn't know, number one, I knew nothing.
63
:That's number one.
64
:I knew nothing.
65
:And I think anybody who starts
any business, of course you
66
:come into it green, right?
67
:Even if you wanna open up a barber
shop, there's things that you have to
68
:do and until you do it, you don't know.
69
:I was, lucky, I guess at the local
college there was a, they have this
70
:a program for new business owners
and they had professionals that
71
:would help you set up an LLC or your
corporation, whatever you chose.
72
:But nobody would oh, well I
can't tell you how to do that.
73
:You need to go talk to your CPA.
74
:So I got went and talked to the CPA
and said, well, what should I do?
75
:Well, you should do this, but
you should also go talk to
76
:an attorney to draw up a con.
77
:And honestly.
78
:By that time I wanted to run away.
79
:my hair was on fire.
80
:I was like, this is, I
just wanna be a coach.
81
:Now you and I on the show, we've talked
about the business of coaching, right?
82
:what should you spend money on?
83
:What should you not spend money on?
84
:but I think interestingly that we
don't know what's really going to hit.
85
:people and, what do I mean by that?
86
:We don't know that Maybe My marketing
didn't work for it initially.
87
:Did yours?
88
:John: No.
89
:Gosh, John, I, blew tons of
money on stuff that did nothing.
90
:Angie: Yeah, so if you run out
of money, do you stop coaching?
91
:it's, it's really, I believe there always
needs to be a strategy behind it, If
92
:this doesn't work, and I don't mean going
into some different field if you're truly
93
:passionate, figure those things out.
94
:But you and I have experienced mul,
we've talked about multiple companies
95
:that we know of, that were great
companies that are now not solopreneurs
96
:what we've been talking about, but
even low to midsize companies that
97
:are air quote, closing their doors.
98
:Now we may never know exactly
why, but even when you are.
99
:At cruising altitude, anything can happen.
100
:Maybe it's that we need to be just as
strategic once we are off the ground.
101
:As we are in the beginning, as cautious
do we, we blow caution to the wind once
102
:we become something, and I don't mean
somebody where we're just this big name.
103
:I mean, we start to actually make
income on a consistent basis.
104
:And you said something earlier, which is
one of my favorite willy-nilly, right?
105
:It doesn't mean that we just all of a
sudden go all willy-nilly in our business.
106
:John: I think I said
loose goosey, but it's the
107
:Angie: Oh, maybe you're right.
108
:I, apologize.
109
:The good thing everybody
else wasn't there to hear.
110
:John: Yeah.
111
:Thank, thankfully there's no
recording of this to check, but,
112
:but, here's, here's the thing.
113
:I think it's, It's very easy to
get focused on the wrong things.
114
:I, think at least now there are,
clearer roadmaps for people, right?
115
:There are more people out there saying,
what does success look like for you?
116
:Which I, didn't consider that when
I first started, coaching business.
117
:I thought, all right, you start,
you build up clients and you.
118
:Figure it out from there, it would've
been helpful to have some sense of, do
119
:I want a lifestyle business that's just
gonna be coaching, a big, have this
120
:many clients, keep it limited and have
freedom to do other stuff, or maybe just
121
:a bum around in the rest of my time.
122
:or do I want something that's
a bit more bit intense?
123
:Build it up, have other people coming in,
bring on more coaches, make it a, bigger
124
:Angie: Yeah.
125
:John: I have no clue.
126
:No clue.
127
:And, even if I had wanted something
bigger, I, probably wouldn't have allowed
128
:myself to think about it very much,
simply because where do we even start?
129
:And as usually sort you go,
oh, go speak to this person.
130
:Then they say, go and
speak to that person.
131
:Before you know it, it is
like, oh my goodness enough.
132
:Why can't this just be
simple and straightforward?
133
:Because you've never really had to
deal with stuff before or face these
134
:challenges of everything takes so
much longer than you think it ever
135
:will, and that's very discouraging.
136
:Angie: Yeah, I think it can dissuade us.
137
:And I think something you said
is, important to recognize if
138
:you are at the beginning, right?
139
:If you're listening and you're like,
well, I'm a newer coach, or I'm
140
:thinking about transitioning from my,
my corporate lifestyle, my corporate
141
:job into being a coach or a consultant.
142
:You know, we have talked about you
need to understand your finances.
143
:That, very important and that probably
will dictate some people I know,
144
:actually, I know two people that
actually took out business loans to
145
:really, even though they had money,
they didn't wanna use their own money.
146
:And they went and that gave them some,
more flexibility in the beginning to
147
:maybe hire some people to do things
like, John and I have talked about
148
:you never, I am not a marketer.
149
:I should never be marketing myself.
150
:I am not great at it.
151
:I don't have any real interest in it.
152
:So, maybe you're able to, do that.
153
:But I think the beginning is, do you
have the vision that you actually want?
154
:A business with more
than being a solopreneur.
155
:Do you want this to be where
you have other coaches?
156
:And how many coaches are you anticipating?
157
:Do you want to run and manage a business?
158
:Do you want an entire
payroll of, admin, sales?
159
:marketing?
160
:Do you want that?
161
:John: Yeah, I, think as a,
as a self-employed coach.
162
:I think there is an order to things that
generally has to be followed, you do.
163
:You do pretty much have to
build up whatever one-to-one
164
:practice you want first.
165
:It's harder to start with group and
things that because you're not, you're
166
:not really established yet, so you
build up your one-to-one practice.
167
:But when that's doing well, then is the
time to start introducing group, maybe
168
:even converting your, your one-to-one
stuff as much as you can into groups.
169
:And then that's a time where you can
then, when that's going well, you can
170
:start thinking about scaling beyond that.
171
:What else do you want?
172
:Which one?
173
:How big do you want to go?
174
:having that vision at the start
is fine, but you still have to
175
:go through a level of process.
176
:I'm sure there are, outliers who
are going and say, no, I, just went
177
:straight into this and made this happen.
178
:And great.
179
:There they are outliers.
180
:It's, it's few and far between.
181
:They the exception rather than the rule.
182
:For most of us, there is a natural
progression to building up your coaching
183
:business, but I think it would still, I,
would still have benefited myself from
184
:having a much clearer vision earlier
on about how I wanted it to look.
185
:How much money did I want to be
making, how much would I need to be?
186
:Charging my clients in order to be hitting
that for the kind of weather, who do I,
187
:who do I want to be nicheing towards?
188
:Do they, can they afford to pay for me?
189
:All that stuff is like, you
don't necessarily think about it.
190
:You go and do your coach training,
hopefully you've done your coach training.
191
:and then you come out and think,
right, I'm ready to coach everybody.
192
:And then you start to realize
that doesn't really work either.
193
:it's too hit or miss.
194
:You have to start figuring things out.
195
:I do think it's, it's easier in some
ways now, apart from what you said,
196
:there were just so many people out there.
197
:The harder part now is finding
the people who are trustworthy or
198
:reliable to help you get the sort
of results that you want to get.
199
:But they are out there.
200
:Angie: You know what's so funny?
201
:I was, I, obviously, I, I spend a lot
of time on LinkedIn and I don't know,
202
:I guess from old postings and stuff,
I see, oh, somebody posted this.
203
:You might be interested.
204
:There are just, this is amazing to me.
205
:Companies, coaching companies that are
like, this is the greatest opportunity
206
:for you to be autonomous and you must
be driven and all of these things.
207
:And they're not even, some of them
aren't even offering a product.
208
:They want you to come and work for
them, and they want you to go find
209
:the clients and then they want you to
share the profits with them because
210
:you're working under their umbrella.
211
:If this is successful, if you
hear this and you are one of those
212
:companies, I, wanna speak to you.
213
:I would love to know how that's
actually working and I listen,
214
:somebody might come at me for this
and probably I don't care, but really.
215
:That concept is working.
216
:'cause it's not just one I've
probably come across in the last
217
:year between five and 10 of them,
where it's this is the greatest.
218
:And they, have these
really, dazzling names.
219
:I'm making this up and this,
this is a real company.
220
:I apologize, but you first
coaching or something that.
221
:And you're like, as a coach,
you're drawn to, oh, what are they
222
:doing and what are they offering?
223
:Right?
224
:As a coach, you need to know what other
companies are offering to see where
225
:you fit into the world, of coaching.
226
:And when I hear this,
I'm like, I'm baffled.
227
:This works.
228
:I need to change
229
:John: I'm just, gonna go and grab
my soapbox so I can stand on it
230
:because I have something to say.
231
:Angie: Oh my, we love Johns.
232
:We love this.
233
:John: This won't be the first time that
I've said this to you, but it probably has
234
:been a long time since this has come up.
235
:But since there are coaching
companies down, undoubtedly some
236
:coaches think, oh yeah, I'll go
and work for a coaching company.
237
:That's fine.
238
:This may be enough for you and this
will a lot of the pressure's off.
239
:Just show up.
240
:Do you coaching?
241
:Collect your bill.
242
:Bill for your money,
whatever, and get paid.
243
:Great.
244
:That's nice and simple, nice and easy.
245
:Work from home, manage it
into your life, whatever.
246
:So you might start looking
for, coaching companies other
247
:than some of the bigger ones.
248
:And you will find those places.
249
:You'll find some of those places on
LinkedIn, for example, among other places.
250
:But as you say, as many of them are,
many of them are franchise operations.
251
:They aren't they, they listed as jobs,
but their franchise operations, they're
252
:not actually offering you a job.
253
:They're offering you an opportunity
to buy into their franchise.
254
:And as you say, you still have
to go out and buy, find the
255
:clients and build up the business.
256
:That doesn't change.
257
:They, may have, they may have plans
and structures for doing that.
258
:Great.
259
:If they do, it's not that far off
from being a multi-level marketing
260
:company though, is it really?
261
:and if,
262
:If there's some sort of profit share
within that or some sort of pyramid
263
:of, commissions that go up, that then
it is, it is essentially a form of
264
:network marketing for coaching and
I, think that's, stay well away, stay
265
:well away, and network marketing is not
something I would generally recommend
266
:people to get into in the first
267
:Angie: I would say this for right.
268
:Here's the line of delineation for me.
269
:If you are not providing me the client's.
270
:Saying, here's our concept.
271
:Here's our concept, our
process, our program.
272
:Go do it.
273
:And you're on the other side of the fence
and you're saying, here's our process.
274
:Even now, go sell it and coach it
and show your entrepreneurial spirit.
275
:You're right there.
276
:I have zero interest in building
up another business for somebody.
277
:When I should be doing that for
myself, then why would I do?
278
:But the question becomes this.
279
:Why would I do that for you?
280
:I don't understand.
281
:Why would I?
282
:Why?
283
:John: there are.
284
:Angie: benefit?
285
:John: Yeah, I must, peddle back a
little bit because there are some
286
:good coach franchises out there that
some people have done very well with.
287
:The one that springs to
mind for me is action coach.
288
:I dunno if you have that where you are,
but I think they are fairly international,
289
:they're business coaching and you do
to some degree have, I guess, what
290
:people have with things ICF or EMC
291
:Angie: Yeah.
292
:Mm-hmm.
293
:John: of a little bit of
assurance of that You.
294
:There's a quality control
that goes into that as well.
295
:There's an association and a level of
trust in that brand that they've had to
296
:establish over the years, but it is a
franchise nonetheless, and it's not a job.
297
:So, I do get a little bit.
298
:Annoyed when these, when some of
these places, and I know action
299
:coach as far as know, don't do
this, but, there are others who do.
300
:They advertise these things
as jobs and they are not jobs.
301
:And I think that, how is that a good
start to any relationship when you've
302
:essentially been cat, you've been
catfished before you even start.
303
:Angie: Yeah.
304
:But I think a lot of people are, I've
actually had, people I know that,
305
:they listen to our show and I know
them, just from a professional space.
306
:And I've had people say, Hey Angie,
you've been a coach for a while.
307
:I was looking into X, Y, Z.
308
:and it sounds really
comprehensive, this might be.
309
:The business in a box that
I've been looking for.
310
:So to your point, John, I do think if
it's something that you can take and
311
:then apply within your business that
structures it and lays out some type
312
:of a, growth plan or a, a map, I don't
think there's anything wrong with that
313
:because it's more than what you and I had.
314
:anything has to be better,
I think, than what we did.
315
:But you're right.
316
:There is that other side to it
where somebody's like, oh, just
317
:go out and promote us and you'll
be yes, it, does, I guess, right?
318
:I didn't think of it that way as
a multi-level marketing concept,
319
:but, and that is different.
320
:There was, there's differentiators between
that and owning a franchise, right?
321
:When you own a franchise,
obviously you're partaking in,
322
:and you're sharing your profits.
323
:I mean, that you're doing that.
324
:So.
325
:That's fine if that's what you choose, but
how these other jobs, these posts, come
326
:up and, try to make it sound like they're
the greatest thing since sliced bread.
327
:I know that I, there's very, I'm thinking
of three different people that I think
328
:are very intelligent, but they don't have
a lot of business savvy and that's okay.
329
:Because they haven't never
owned a business asking me
330
:about what do you think of this?
331
:And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
332
:run right is that's what I think.
333
:Right?
334
:What are you looking for?
335
:And I do think that people are looking
for a business in the box concept.
336
:I will buy this from you.
337
:Please just give it to me.
338
:Right?
339
:How do I do this?
340
:John: this was, this is part
of what makes multi-level
341
:marketing companies attractive.
342
:But look, I said there are some good
franchises out there that you would, you'd
343
:probably do well to be associated with.
344
:And you ha anything in life, you
do have to do a bit of homework
345
:on this and, make sure it's legit.
346
:but MLMs and the like.
347
:The only people who ever really make
money with them are the people who
348
:start them up, or people who really
are gifted salespeople before they
349
:even go into it and they, properly
treat it a full-time business.
350
:So this idea that you can buy into
a business and it's just, oh, just.
351
:Do it in a do a few hours a day.
352
:When you got do it between picking up
the kids and making their dinners I'm
353
:sorry, you are never gonna have any
business with that, that these, these
354
:sorts of promises of oh, it's so easy.
355
:It, it is absolutely misleading.
356
:And, and, same with any, it's
the same with any business.
357
:Whether you do this by yourself or
whether you do a business in a box
358
:thing, you still have to do all of the
same things to make that business grow.
359
:Why not?
360
:I, say, why not do that all
under your own power and steam?
361
:Because unless you need the association
of somebody else's name, that's
362
:for recognition and credibility.
363
:Do it under your own power niche yourself.
364
:Do all that stuff, get the
coaching and guidance that helps
365
:coaches to do this sort of thing.
366
:you will, you'll be doing all the
same things anyway, but it will be you
367
:and and it will be how you want it.
368
:You start off that way rather than getting
five, five years into, I thinking, I
369
:think it's time I did my own thing.
370
:Angie: And listen, and maybe that is part
of the growth for some people at times.
371
:we all have different reasons for,
you and I met at a company, right?
372
:That's where we met originally.
373
:So it does happen that sometimes we're
oh, I wanna, segue this looks a great way.
374
:Well what better way to learn
it than to actually do it?
375
:And that's fine.
376
:But it's also even going back to your,
what you said in the very beginning of.
377
:there's, there's an order to things.
378
:And I think part of that, and, the
reason, one of the best reasons
379
:for having the order is, I mean,
some things happen simultaneously.
380
:It's not step one, step two, it might
be two a, three B, whatever, but that's
381
:also to not get ahead of yourself and.
382
:It's to keep you in alignment.
383
:It's to keep you focused on
what is the real priority.
384
:And you and I have both
experienced companies over the
385
:years that have grown too quickly.
386
:I had a business actually, now that
I'm thinking about it out loud,
387
:many, many, many years ago where.
388
:I didn't, I had a very short term vision.
389
:I, and this is me now
post this experience.
390
:I didn't know that at the time.
391
:And I had people offering
people that I knew very well.
392
:Two people were Hey, let me help you
take your business to the next level.
393
:And they were talking, Buying
vehicles and all of the, and
394
:I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
395
:No thank you.
396
:I was not interested.
397
:I couldn't even today tell you exactly
why, but it scared the bejesus out of me.
398
:And And they both said to me,
well, what are you gonna do?
399
:How are you gonna scale?
400
:They were both already very
different businesses, by the
401
:way, but business owners and.
402
:John: Yeah.
403
:Angie: Guess what?
404
:I probably should have listened because
I didn't know how to scale and my
405
:business grew to levels where, what
we talked about in our, our last set.
406
:I could not personally do any more work.
407
:I was already limited.
408
:So it is Not that we
wanna focus on day one.
409
:Well, geez, how am I
gonna scale my business?
410
:that's not the the problem to start with.
411
:But your vision could help if you do
envision yourself as having maybe, oh,
412
:I'd love to have a handful of coaches
working for me, something manageable.
413
:I'm not looking to be, for example, a Tony
Robbins who's got multitudes of businesses
414
:and multitudes of companies and all of
the, he doesn't manage them anymore.
415
:We're not talking that scale, but I mean,
if you are that person that actually
416
:wants to have that big name and brand,
I'd love to hear that too, right?
417
:How do you do that and how do you stay
418
:John: Yeah.
419
:Angie: and do not overextend yourself?
420
:John: And there's everything
in between as well, right?
421
:is important to have a sense of where
you want to go so that you can start
422
:to look at what, to what happens next.
423
:But one of the danger points that
I've seen over recent years, and maybe
424
:a bit less so now, maybe a bit less
post COVID, but certainly before then
425
:it was, it was happening a lot, is
these, these startups coming along and
426
:running a a hundred miles an hour and,
427
:Some of them were making it over the line.
428
:Some of the vast majority of them weren't.
429
:They, were crashing and
burning really quick.
430
:For example, you're saying they
were trying to build, they were
431
:trying to scale way too quickly
432
:Angie: Yeah.
433
:John: and and trying to,
trying to dominate the market.
434
:From startup and that, that is tough.
435
:And again, this is the, the outliers.
436
:You see the success story.
437
:We have a, we have a success bias in,
in every industry, but definitely in
438
:coaching, the outliers are the ones
that you'll hear the stories of.
439
:And you'll be inspired by the, I do that.
440
:I had a sales sales position.
441
:I had a sales position with, a
company selling, podcast growth.
442
:podcast growth training.
443
:They're still around.
444
:but the guy who was running that, super
nice guy, he was trying, he tried to
445
:scale too quickly and, part of the
reason for that was he was hanging around
446
:with all these sort of, what you call
marketing bros or these Hormosi types.
447
:they're all in the sort of, going,
going to church to pray to Alex
448
:Hormosi and whoever at the weekend.
449
:But it was very much that.
450
:So there was all these group of
particular marketing bros, they'd often
451
:go to the same events and they're all.
452
:I guess they're all challenging each
other to some degree or feeling challenged
453
:because some people are, are way ahead of
them, and some people are, they're not.
454
:But they're looking at the
people who are, who are way ahead
455
:of thinking, I wanna be that.
456
:And it's like, well, let's.
457
:Let's get in the race, get in
the race and race, race, race.
458
:And in many cases, in this particular
case, it was too, too much, too soon.
459
:And so it ended up with one particular
day, some years back of, early in January.
460
:Getting on a group, a team call, and
pretty much all of us were let go 'cause
461
:he didn't have any other option but to
scale the business, his option was to
462
:scale the business back to the essentials,
which was him and one other person.
463
:And his, he's since built
up but in a manageable, in a
464
:sustainable way since then.
465
:But that is a painful.
466
:That is a painful lesson to learn.
467
:I'm so glad that he's, he's survived that
and coming back strong and doing well.
468
:'cause he's a really good guy.
469
:But my goodness, how, how difficult that
was for him, how upsetting to have to let
470
:go of, of a team of people who he cared
about and having to admit that it was
471
:his mistakes that had caused all of this.
472
:That's, that's often how it goes.
473
:We don't, we don't always know how
to build or grow our businesses,
474
:scale them in ways that are
manageable and sustainable.
475
:We sometimes think we can just go, go fall
out, scale it up, and everything will just
476
:fall into place, and, that rarely happens.
477
:Angie: You know what's so funny?
478
:Angie (2): So I had a conversation
with somebody last week, and this fits
479
:in perfectly, I think, is that, even,
even success, even if your company is
480
:growing consistently by percentages
every single year, that doesn't mean
481
:that you do just because you can or
have the money that you should spend it.
482
:we shouldn't go looking for ways to
spend money unless there's a strategy.
483
:Of some behind it.
484
:I mean, I actually sat in a meeting with
somebody who had tons of boxes behind
485
:them and I was like, Hey, what's all that?
486
:That's new?
487
:And they're swag.
488
:And I go, okay.
489
:I get it.
490
:I, get it.
491
:I'm not saying that companies
shouldn't, produce some of that,
492
:but I still think there needs
to be str strategy behind that.
493
:Just because you have it doesn't
mean you should spend it.
494
:The people I know that have the
most, or companies, I think that.
495
:Retain the, the more of
their profits spend less.
496
:And it's funny because their
employees might say, well, geez, I
497
:don't know, understand why there's
a pay freeze right now, or a hiring
498
:freeze if we're doing so well.
499
:Well 'cause they wanna
maintain that, right?
500
:They're not gonna be loosey
goosey willy-nilly spending money.
501
:Why?
502
:Unless it's, again, unless there's
a new, a new, a next level that
503
:requires a, a push, or a stretch.
504
:Just because you have it doesn't
mean you need to spend it seriously.
505
:John: I think, I mean this has maybe
come up in coaching conversations for
506
:us before, but I think there are very
few coaching companies who actually
507
:pay coaches what they're worth, if,
any, at all, maybe a few places.
508
:and, this is part of the reason why.
509
:because you, you are ult, you are
ultimately, a cost, you're a cost to
510
:the business once they bring you in.
511
:but I think that is the wrong, I think
that is the wrong way to look at it.
512
:and I do think if you actually invested
your money into your people, given them
513
:salaries that make them want to stick
around, make it, make it a, a good place
514
:to be that, know where they feel they
have a say and they, they feel they have
515
:Maybe not com, maybe not autonomy.
516
:You can't be necessarily do that, but
they, feel valued and feel part of it.
517
:and, they feel respected for their
time with, with at least the, a payment
518
:that shows that even if you can't give
them what they might be earning by
519
:themselves, 'cause obviously there's a
lot of cost involved, then they're gonna
520
:want to stay around, stay with that.
521
:They're gonna wanna stick around for it.
522
:But there are so few
places that actually do it.
523
:And, this is why, one of the reasons
why many, many coaches do really
524
:want to just work for themselves.
525
:So even in BetterUp, even if
you're sort of in the top levels of
526
:BetterUp, you can do well, but you
can still do better by yourself.
527
:you, but you have to go
and find the clients.
528
:So then you've got all the costs
and costs and effort of all of that.
529
:Angie (2): All of the
530
:John: more money.
531
:Angie (2): Yeah.
532
:John: You
533
:Angie (2): which you and
I were talking about.
534
:John: But I, but I don't, I don't
under, yeah, I don't understand that.
535
:I don't think people
care so much about merch.
536
:By all means, have some of it, if,
it's, a reasonable cost in your business
537
:and, nice to have some, nice to have
some things that you can give away.
538
:But keep it on, keep it on the,
not, not you want cheap and
539
:tacky, but keep it affordable.
540
:Keep it on something manageable.
541
:But you're right, I think people
just sort of say, oh, there's all
542
:this money and, let's do this.
543
:But they're not putting it into the right.
544
:Into the right places, And think
the, there is, not, not, this isn't
545
:really a conversation for us, but
there is definitely an issue around
546
:the disparity between, CEOs and
many companies now earning a hundred
547
:times more than the people at the
lowest levels, of the business.
548
:And it's like, well, that's
where all the money is going.
549
:And then there's layoffs and stuff.
550
:And as you say, that's to keep
the people at the top comfy, not.
551
:Not the people who are sort of doing
the, doing the essential work of the
552
:day-to-day running of the business.
553
:Different conversation.
554
:But these, these are, these are to
some degree, still relevant in, in your
555
:coaching model, especially if you are
looking to build up a business that.
556
:It's like, yeah, have a business that,
bring people in, but respect them.
557
:Make it worth a while.
558
:Create an environment that you would
want to work in and, if you want it to
559
:last, make sure they want to stay, but.
560
:Yeah, you still have to, you
still have to watch the money.
561
:You still have to make sure that
you're being sensible with, with what
562
:you're bringing into your business.
563
:Angie (2): Yeah, time, money.
564
:What do you have to, how much do
you have to bring to the table?
565
:It's not just how much money do you have,
it's all other resources, including,
566
:and especially just as important,
maybe not especially, but your time.
567
:How much time do you have to be the
coach and the advisor and now the things,
568
:and, that just comes down to maybe
creating that roadmap for yourself.
569
:Creating a real.
570
:Business plan, which if you have
no business experience, John and I
571
:have said go find somebody who does
and have that conversation for sure.
572
:John: I mean, the conversation I was
having with a coaching friend this
573
:just this morning was about, actually
tax efficiency with the business,
574
:the cost of, being self-employed,
which we had a bit of a chat about
575
:as well, just keeps going up and up.
576
:there's a, a cost attached to that.
577
:At some point I'm gonna have to start
looking into setting up, a business
578
:to save myself money, but I have to
look at the best way of doing that and
579
:setting up a, a limited company, and
making, and making that shift potentially
580
:because it's, it's gonna be so much.
581
:Better for me financially to do that
and, not, not necessarily that I want
582
:to build up to having this huge business
with those people working for me.
583
:I don't think that's really
in the, in the schema for me.
584
:But, but I do not want to be paying, I
do not want to be getting full, fully
585
:whacked for tax when I don't need to.
586
:When there are.
587
:Mechanisms and methodologies that
will allow me to, I'll still pay my
588
:tax because I think it's important
to do that, but, I don't need to be
589
:getting hammered for it, and that
that's the alternative, which is not
590
:Angie (2): Well, I think that's why yes,
you need to go talk to, somebody who
591
:has the expertise in, in those spaces.
592
:And, even though I felt I was going
on a wild goose chase way back in
593
:the beginning, I realize now how,
how valuable that actually was
594
:to, to go and do it the right way,
gain the information, et cetera.
595
:John: I, did business studies at school.
596
:There is, there's no way that being able
to do a profit and loss chart actually
597
:prepared me for having a business.
598
:So, and, I don't think,
I don't, I don't think,
599
:Angie (2): for you.
600
:John: I don't really think, I don't
really think MBAs as much as they
601
:can be valued, I don't think they
necessarily give people everything.
602
:I think that people can be very
successful without them, so it shouldn't
603
:be the thing that you have to look at.
604
:but, but getting some mentorship
and getting the right guidance.
605
:I think is one of the critical
elements for having a successful
606
:business that will last the distance
as well, and, and encourage you to
607
:do what we, what we will do, what
exactly what we do in this situation.
608
:Get the advice that you need from people
who know what they're talking about
609
:Angie (2): agreed.
610
:Starting with John and Angie.
611
:John: and look who knows what
we'll be talking about next time,
612
:that if this has been valuable
to you, make sure you subscribe.
613
:Then we'll see you again soon.
