Becoming a Coach: The Sometimes Unexpected Career Path
Summary
In this conversation, Angie and John explore the coaching journey, discussing the differences between accidental and intentional coaching paths. They reflect on their own experiences, the evolution of the coaching industry, and the importance of age and experience in establishing credibility as a coach. The discussion also touches on the changing landscape of coaching, the saturation of the market, and the need for differentiation in a competitive field.
Takeaways
Coaching can often be an accidental career path.
Many people enter coaching without realizing it until later.
The coaching industry has evolved significantly over the years.
Age and experience can play a crucial role in coaching effectiveness.
Younger coaches may face challenges in gaining respect from older clients.
Establishing credibility is essential for success in coaching.
The coaching market is becoming increasingly saturated.
Differentiation is key to standing out as a coach.
Branding and marketing are important for coaching success.
The motivations for becoming a coach can vary widely.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Accidental Coaching
01:47 Early Experiences and Realizations
04:12 Intentional Path to Coaching
08:50 Challenges of Young Coaches
19:17 Establishing Credibility and Longevity
25:08 Conclusion and Listener Engagement
Want to contact the show? You can leave us a voicemail. It's free to do and we might feature you on our next episode. All you need to do is go to https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast and leave us a message.
You can send us a video or voice message on LinkedIn:
John's LinkedIn Profile or go to PresentInfluence.com for coaching enquiries with John
2023 Present Influence Productions The Coaching Clinic 44
Transcript
John,
2
:John: Angie.
3
:Angie: I was thinking about my
coaching career and how I got here.
4
:John: Oh, okay.
5
:And what did you come up with?
6
:Angie: The truth completely by accident.
7
:John: Sorry, I guess you're saying
that you're an accidental coach.
8
:Angie: I guess you could really say that.
9
:John: It's an interesting thought.
10
:Maybe we could dive into
that on today's episode.
11
:Angie: Yeah, let's do that.
12
:You and I just have to say
this for people listening.
13
:They never get the antics that
go on before we start recording.
14
:And John said something right
before we started recording today.
15
:And I thought.
16
:And I can't like, I try not to laugh
because I don't even think I could
17
:share it about becoming a coach.
18
:Just, why do we choose this or not?
19
:Sorry.
20
:It was a great little commentary
21
:John: And if we could record those
bits, but we couldn't publish them.
22
:Angie: but it would definitely
put a different, set of
23
:glasses on what we actually do.
24
:No, I'm teasing.
25
:But yeah.
26
:It's what we're talking about.
27
:I think it's it's funny.
28
:I don't know many people.
29
:I think I met literally one person.
30
:About six or seven months ago, who
intentionally is becoming a coach.
31
:He's very young.
32
:He's 18.
33
:He's just graduating high school.
34
:And I made a statement like,
oh most of us don't do it.
35
:And he's oh, I'm doing
it totally intentionally.
36
:Really?
37
:John: Here's a question for you then,
cause this is relevant to me too.
38
:How old were you when you even
knew that coaching was a thing?
39
:Angie: Oh, that's an easy one.
40
:I'm going to say it was
like, this is so crazy.
41
:It was like 2000.
42
:It was like Y2K
43
:John: Probably around then.
44
:Yeah.
45
:For me, it was that around 2000,
:
46
:Angie: Yeah.
47
:Yeah.
48
:John: for anyone who's not sure how old
we are, we had left school by that point.
49
:It wasn't in our career options.
50
:Angie: We're not talking about it.
51
:No, listen, it's so funny because people
always ask I go on a lot of podcasts
52
:now and everybody wants to know.
53
:So tell me about you.
54
:How did you get here?
55
:And honestly, I have this very quick movie
that plays in my mind, like a visual.
56
:And it's I lip skated into this.
57
:I did not intentionally become a coach,
but I think it was more because of.
58
:A, that, coaching wasn't so
mainstream like as it is now.
59
:And if you back then said, I'm a
coach, people said, Oh, for what sport?
60
:Nobody made the correlation, right?
61
:But the thing is, I was coaching.
62
:And I say this out loud all the time.
63
:I was coaching before
coaching was a thing.
64
:I just didn't know
that's what I was doing.
65
:It was not intentional.
66
:I wasn't like, I was like
maybe a mentor or a trainer.
67
:I started out in entry level
management when I was like 18, 19.
68
:Somebody said, here's a set of keys.
69
:And I could literally tell you at that
moment, my leadership journey began.
70
:I had no idea.
71
:Like I didn't have any clue.
72
:John: It's amazing how many aspects
of professional life coaching does
73
:appear in and they may not be a
professional coach, but you'll be doing
74
:some elements of coaching within that.
75
:My journey into coaching was intentional.
76
:I did plan to become a coach.
77
:Angie: Too fancy.
78
:John: Oh, yeah, I'm glad.
79
:Let me tell you I don't know if
I've ever told you this, Angie, but
80
:I used to be a flight attendant a
81
:Angie: Ah, that was, yeah.
82
:We had a qu . mm-hmm . Mm-hmm
83
:John: time ago.
84
:And and it was whilst I was on a trip.
85
:One time, I can even remember that
we were going to Philadelphia and the
86
:senior crew member on that trip was a
life coach, very nice lady called Sally.
87
:And I, I don't know if she, I
doubt she's still flying, but
88
:she might still be coaching.
89
:And she started talking about coaching
and I was fascinated and we probably
90
:spent the whole trip talking about it.
91
:She gave me some books to go and
check out and I think within maybe
92
:the week after that trip, I found
an online coaching program which is.
93
:Which was run by my friend, Neil and
his wife, Natasha, who now live here
94
:in Valencia, crazily enough, and I'm
actually going for lunch with him
95
:tomorrow, but yeah, that's just crazy.
96
:That's how I got into coaching.
97
:So it was very intentional and I was
studying all the materials planning in
98
:my practice sessions around my flights.
99
:So I was very much intending that
at some point I was going to leave
100
:flying and become a coach full time.
101
:So it was very.
102
:Intentional for me.
103
:And I'd always been interested
in psychology and still app still
104
:but I didn't want to become a
psychologist or a psychiatrist.
105
:I didn't feel that was the
right path for me, but coaching
106
:being so solution focused.
107
:Being conversational and goal
orientated really appealed to me.
108
:That whole concept really appealed to me.
109
:It's I'm not psychoanalyzing people.
110
:I'm actually just helping them
get solution focused and create
111
:plans and take action to get
to where they want to get to.
112
:That sounds like my kind of thing.
113
:Angie: That's the route
that it went for you.
114
:I'm like sitting here going,
isn't that interesting?
115
:'cause you said I didn't really, I did,
I went and got a degree in psychology.
116
:I think.
117
:That it was probably always
like the human condition, if you
118
:will, was always a thing for me.
119
:It fascinated me.
120
:I liked learning about who we are.
121
:Why do we do what we do?
122
:There was definitely intrigue there,
but I think what I like now as a
123
:coach, I could say in a speaker I
have landed exactly where I should be.
124
:And honestly, if I had
known that, I don't know.
125
:I could look at it and say.
126
:If I had done this back when I realized
how much I loved learning about the
127
:human element and all of the things, Tony
Robbins would be signing my book, just
128
:saying, I'm making the joke but honestly,
Because I was very in tune to it, but
129
:I was, I took the long route, right?
130
:I didn't understand, I went from
management to leadership and to
131
:all of a sudden I was like, wait
a minute, the light bulb literally
132
:went off behind my brain and said,
you have been doing this for Always.
133
:You've always been doing this.
134
:No matter what other title you, that I
had, that I carried, I was always more
135
:somebody hired me once for an operations
position because I also happened to
136
:be like very, organized and I like to
learn how things work mechanically, not
137
:technically, but everybody knows me.
138
:That's a no, but I like to
intricately take things apart.
139
:I hated it.
140
:I absolutely, it was, I did that
position for a few years and
141
:literally I felt like I was running
on the treadmill 10 hours a day.
142
:I would get home and I was
exhausted and I didn't know why.
143
:And it was because it
wasn't where I needed to be.
144
:It wasn't my wheelhouse.
145
:So I really had a lot of discovery.
146
:Before this became intentional and yeah,
like even the speaking piece, I know
147
:when that literally clicked for me, but
it was not back when I was 19 years old.
148
:I thought, but this is probably the
misconception we've talked about this.
149
:I thought management meant if I'm in
management, it means that I am like
150
:leading people and essentially you
should be, but that wasn't the position.
151
:I was literally hired.
152
:You're supposed to manage and.
153
:There wasn't a big focus with any
organization or industry at that time on
154
:coaching, mentoring, and growth, right?
155
:There was no growth mindset back then.
156
:Not really, not like it is now.
157
:John: Kind of glad that I didn't know
that it was a thing at school because
158
:I might have gone down that path and I.
159
:Could see that it at that time, it
probably wouldn't have gone well for
160
:the things like most people in the UK
particularly did not know what coaching
161
:was, but also somebody that young
coaching that's going to be difficult.
162
:I don't know about you, but I would
not hire a coach who was like plucked
163
:out of college or something like that.
164
:I just wouldn't.
165
:They would have to be exceptionally
good for me to even consider it.
166
:Because there is that thing
of age and experience.
167
:Similarly to how, I guess we want, in,
in the political representation, we
168
:want people who have age and experience
to a degree, not someone who's just
169
:come out of studying politics and
that's all they've ever done or known.
170
:They don't have real world experience.
171
:And similarly for coaches, you're
going to have, you're going to, I think
172
:you would struggle as a coach with
that little real world experience.
173
:Angie: You know what?
174
:It's yeah, I agree with you.
175
:I actually worked for a company several
years ago and I trained with this person
176
:alongside of her and she was very young.
177
:She was she was in her like
just, excuse me, sorry.
178
:She was in her late twenties, but she
had a very young voice on top of it.
179
:And the coaching that we were
doing was not, it was not on
180
:zoom or anything like that.
181
:It was done.
182
:We were, we were doing it over the phone.
183
:And I will say this to you, in
terms of coaching skills, cause
184
:I was helping to train as well.
185
:So in terms of the skills and the ability
to do the digging, she was natural.
186
:She was outstanding.
187
:However, when she was assigned
clients, executive clients
188
:did not want to work with her.
189
:They were like, why are
you giving me this child?
190
:I don't, I'm not coaching with a child.
191
:Like I'm a 55 year old executive.
192
:What is this person going to help me with?
193
:And I get that cause it's
screams to your point.
194
:Bye.
195
:There are the occasional exceptions.
196
:She was an exception, but mostly I think
that's the way the world works is that
197
:we are not going to give ourselves,
we're not going to become vulnerable
198
:with somebody that, we're going like, I
could be, your mother or, something like
199
:John: so few things in the world where
you, where youth is a disadvantage.
200
:Let us have this, let
us oldies have, but no,
201
:Angie: alive and well.
202
:John: But seriously no I don't think I
would have been effective as a coach.
203
:I know when we're 18, 19, 20, we think
we know everything but yeah I, we
204
:soon learn, hopefully we soon learn
and realize that we don't but I can
205
:see it, why it's a big disadvantage.
206
:And some, and a lot of it is
just perception that the people
207
:that you said just won't want
to work with somebody who's that
208
:young and inexperienced in life.
209
:It's You can't really be mentored by that.
210
:And it didn't like can you
do all the coaching stuff?
211
:Yes.
212
:But the reality of coaching
for most people is that you
213
:will bring in consultative
and mentorship elements to it.
214
:And if you don't have life or
business experience, you're just
215
:not going to be able to do that.
216
:So it is a disadvantage.
217
:I don't think you couldn't do it.
218
:But it could take a number of years before
people are going to properly respect you
219
:for doing it and give you your props.
220
:Angie: I agree.
221
:And I think it depends on
what it is that you're doing.
222
:So a lot of people that are coming into
coaching now aren't just going,Hey,
223
:I'm a life coach because back when
that's what it was, I'm a life coach.
224
:This is my badge.
225
:It's changed since then because
now you coach, I coach, but we
226
:coach in very different spaces.
227
:I think the advantage for somebody who
maybe is a little bit younger that is
228
:I think I want to be a coach is to go
back to what you and I talked about
229
:probably like episode one or two last
year, which was, is there a niche?
230
:Is there something that you, where you
do have experience of some kind where
231
:you're able to then bring that and create.
232
:Something right that you can
present to the public and sell as
233
:your product and as your brand.
234
:I think branding is very important now,
whereas back in the day, it really wasn't.
235
:It was like, I'm a life coach.
236
:This is what I'm doing, and I'm not I
don't want people coming at me going,
237
:I was doing X, Y, Z in 1998 or 1985.
238
:I'm not saying it didn't exist at all.
239
:John's laughing because he
knows I'm just saying it wasn't
240
:as mainstream as it is now.
241
:So there, there can be a space
for you, but that's exactly it.
242
:What's the space?
243
:What is it that you, what's the talent
that you're bringing to being a coach?
244
:Like, why do we even become a coach?
245
:John's question.
246
:Why do we even become coaches?
247
:is that?
248
:Why do we become coaches?
249
:John: Why are coaches?
250
:Yeah it's all interesting.
251
:I think there's stuff out
there, even for younger people.
252
:I'll say this because what was making
me think I was like back when I used
253
:to, my early days of doing martial arts,
when I was young enough and fit enough
254
:to do kickboxing, believe it or not.
255
:And.
256
:Angie: There's a new one.
257
:John: there's there's something for you
and and a lot of fun, a lot of fun very
258
:highly highly aggressive sports, some
degree, but I enjoyed it, and sometimes
259
:in the group, there was a lot of young
kids in the martial arts club, and
260
:sometimes they would, as part of their
leadership journey, be put in charge of
261
:teacher groups, and sometimes the head
instructor, who was a multiple world
262
:champion in kickboxing, put him, would
put kids in charge of the adult groups.
263
:And stuff would come up,
264
:Angie: I'm betting.
265
:Yeah,
266
:John: because it challenges the ego.
267
:Oh I'm supposed to learn for this kid.
268
:And yet they'd be
perfectly good at doing it.
269
:They knew how to instruct and
that they would do it very
270
:respectfully and they're great kids.
271
:But there is something about us having
to maybe step out of our ego or our,
272
:Preconceptions, because we do have these
more archetypal ideas inside our mind
273
:about what a coach or a teacher or a
mentor or guide should look like and be
274
:like, and it's usually not some young kid.
275
:Angie: No.
276
:And I think there's the authority there.
277
:I think a lot of like just
say the public, right?
278
:The people looking for coaches,
they, they have an expectation
279
:unspoken or maybe spoken where it's
like, you need to know more than me.
280
:If you're going to be the pace
car, if you're going to be the
281
:person that's driving me or driving
alongside of me, there's, so
282
:there's this idea of authority.
283
:Maybe.
284
:And I think that most adults,
more mature people, maybe in their
285
:say forties, I'm making that up.
286
:Don't look at somebody maybe in their
late twenties as an authority figure.
287
:And that creates the block right
then and there no, I can't do this.
288
:I can't talk to somebody that's, I
honestly, I'm being honest, no, my
289
:gosh, maybe this is going to get cut.
290
:But I probably myself wouldn't
hire as a coach somebody in their
291
:twenties, I probably would not
because of who I am, how I am.
292
:And I know that I immediately would
pummel, I would just take over and be
293
:like, why aren't you asking me this?
294
:I, it'd probably become too
much of a teaching moment.
295
:But that's my truth.
296
:John: But if I did want to know
that I'd ever do kickboxing again
297
:I'm just too old for it now.
298
:I think it was probably but if I
did want to do martial arts training
299
:again, or if I did like I swim every
day, pretty much I saw this morning,
300
:there was a swimming coach at the
pool and probably mid twenties.
301
:I wouldn't have a problem with that.
302
:I generally wouldn't, but if I'm looking
for coaching for my business, if I'm
303
:looking for coaching for my, my life or
philosophy, I'm probably not going to
304
:look to someone in the twenties as well.
305
:I'm sorry about it for any of
our listeners who are in there,
306
:their twenties is just is just.
307
:Realistically, I'm not going to
look for it, but it doesn't mean it
308
:doesn't mean if I saw what you're
offering and it looked really good,
309
:but I wouldn't still consider it.
310
:I'm just not going to
311
:Angie: Not to say this.
312
:John: it.
313
:Angie: No, and I think you're right, but
I want to say this and this could be this.
314
:I'm literally just off the cuff thinking
out loud here I and it's in this could
315
:be just my perception, but I have to say
this I feel like people in their 20s now
316
:a days Because I'm in my mid 50s, right?
317
:I'm rounding I'm going around.
318
:I'm almost I'm pushing 60 And I will
say this, I, and again, perception,
319
:maybe I feel like people in their
twenties now are much more mature than
320
:like my generation in their twenties.
321
:I think they have higher level positions.
322
:Some of them are actually having children
like, so I do feel like there is an
323
:element of change that has happened again.
324
:It could be just my perception
because I was in it at the time.
325
:So I don't know, but I have had
conversations with people that were
326
:colleagues or friends that are in that
age group by just by, by accident.
327
:And sometimes I'm like, a little shock
Oh, that was a pretty mature, like
328
:in my mind, I'm saying that was a
pretty mature or a really high level.
329
:conversation I just had.
330
:And it's a little bit surprising
because I wasn't having those
331
:conversations like that back then.
332
:So I don't know, John, like I'm, maybe
I'm making that up, but I do feel like in
333
:defense of what I know people are probably
going, why the hell are they bashing us?
334
:We're not, we're just saying,
335
:John: maybe even comparing
to, to just ourselves.
336
:I guess I, I would say I, I would probably
have, I know I wouldn't have made a
337
:good coach at those ages and I wasn't.
338
:I wasn't really interested in that
anyway until I was probably around 30.
339
:That was the age when I discovered
coaching more or less and decided that
340
:was the path that I wanted to go down.
341
:I was quite happy just enjoying
myself, flying around the world
342
:having laughs and didn't really want
much more than that in my twenties.
343
:So I was quite superficial
344
:Angie: I think this, I think
that if there, no matter, I
345
:don't care how old you are.
346
:And and let me say this for the record.
347
:Even in the last, say, 10 years of my
career, when I, was having discovery
348
:calls or even working with companies
where I was being vetted by the client.
349
:There were, it was pretty some of
the questions about me before I start
350
:working with this Angie person, who
says I should be talking to her really?
351
:What are her credentials?
352
:What is her experience?
353
:So understand, I'm not just saying
it like, Oh, because you're in your
354
:younger years that this is what it is.
355
:It even happens now.
356
:John: It's, it is that whole thing
of establishing your credibility
357
:and my pal half calls it earn the
right, you have to earn the right to
358
:be in the position that you're in.
359
:It can't just be assumed.
360
:And I would say we, we are also
in a position where just because
361
:you maybe have a title or are in
a particular position right now.
362
:That I think people are maybe more
aware than they ever have been that
363
:the positions are not what get respect.
364
:You have, it does have to be earned.
365
:So we still have to, we still have to
earn the right, we still have to prove
366
:our stripes and show our metal regardless.
367
:But it's But I think it would be foolish
to suggest that it's not going to be
368
:that much harder if you are wanting
to do the, maybe the kinds of coaching
369
:that we do, if you're like fresh out
of college or something like that, it
370
:might be a struggle, not impossible.
371
:And I know this put you off, but just
be aware of the realities of that.
372
:And that's what I say is maybe why
I'm glad I didn't have that concept
373
:at school, even though I think I would
have loved to have been a coach the
374
:whole way along, it just probably
wasn't very realistic that would
375
:Angie: Yep.
376
:Yeah.
377
:John: it's not unreasonable.
378
:Angie: Listen, but I also think that
you and I, like we talked about in the
379
:beginning, it was a lot harder back
then to, I feel like this is the snow
380
:walking through the snow conversation
when you're a kid, but I do feel like
381
:it was a lot, it was a lot harder.
382
:You didn't have the
social media platforms.
383
:You didn't have a way to
get in front of people.
384
:And it was a lot harder
because it was a newer concept.
385
:People were laughing.
386
:I, I know I talked about this.
387
:There was somebody in a networking
group that I belonged to at the time
388
:and he was a life coach and People were
laughing and I say to them, he is still
389
:and this is that was 2001 So 24 years
later, he is laughing all the way to
390
:the bank because he was you know He
saw what was coming So I think for I
391
:think the big question that we were even
starting to talk about today was around
392
:Like why do I want to become a coach?
393
:You And I think that, a lot of it is
because for some people that I talk to,
394
:it's more about the getting like what I
can work from anywhere and I can do all
395
:these things and I can charge this and
I can help people and that's all great.
396
:But I think it also has to come, like the
question needs to be answered more from
397
:the perspective of what am I offering?
398
:I know what the benefits are for
me, but what is it that I'm going
399
:to actually be putting out there?
400
:What?
401
:Why?
402
:Why do I really want to be a coach?
403
:I know people that are coaches because
they just love telling people what to do.
404
:John and I don't work like that, but some
people are satisfying some other void
405
:and it's not necessarily coming from
a place of, I have something to offer.
406
:The world needs this.
407
:I don't
408
:John: and I maybe have said this before
on episodes, but there are some great
409
:people who are naturally great coaches.
410
:They just ask the right questions.
411
:They dive in the right places.
412
:They pick up on what's being
said and not being said.
413
:And great.
414
:Some of us have to learn those things.
415
:Some of us may really
struggle to ever master them.
416
:Everyone's in different places, but
it doesn't mean you can't still bring
417
:something to the table as a coach.
418
:But there are definitely coaches out
there who, Are great at the marketing and
419
:branding and not great at the delivery.
420
:They're not actually great coaches,
but they have all the packaging
421
:and the marketing set up going on.
422
:And a lot of the coaches who are great at
coaching are not good at all those things
423
:or don't even like doing all those things.
424
:And There are some coaches and probably
becoming more so because there's more
425
:people teaching this stuff now who
are good at all the marketing and
426
:branding now and getting all have
the help and support to be good at
427
:it and also great at delivering that.
428
:And if you have those things, if you good
at the marketing, packaging, business
429
:elements of it, And you can deliver
excellent coaching, I think you're made.
430
:I really do.
431
:I think that's you're, you are going
to have so much success, but I think if
432
:you, anyone who's good at the coaching
stuff can learn all the other stuff.
433
:But I think if you're good at all the
marketing and branding and not good at
434
:the coaching, You can learn some of it.
435
:You can probably get better at that.
436
:I think you'd have to want to
get better at that, but if you
437
:don't, I think you may find that
your business isn't going to last
438
:Angie: Listen, that's maybe something
we should talk about in an episode is,
439
:how to create longevity in your coaching
practice, because there is a lot more
440
:there's a lot more competition now.
441
:And I think the number is, and don't
quote me, but it's somewhere around.
442
:In the last five years, the
coaching industry has grown by 500%.
443
:That's an unbelievable number.
444
:And it's a realistic number.
445
:And it was already on its
way and then COVID hit.
446
:And what, what happened?
447
:We were doing like remote work and
people were like now what do I do?
448
:Oh, I'll become a coach.
449
:And that's okay.
450
:You got to make, here's the
lemons, let's make lemonade.
451
:But.
452
:The result, regardless of how we
got here, is that it is becoming
453
:a very saturated industry.
454
:So you really need to figure out
how you're going to differentiate
455
:yourself from everybody else.
456
:It's definitely
457
:John: and make sure that you are
following this show because this is the
458
:stuff kind of stuff that we talk about.
459
:Angie: Yeah, that's why we're here.
460
:John: every week, we need to close
the doors to the coaching clinic
461
:today, Angie, but look, you can
get in touch with either of us.
462
:Our LinkedIn profiles
are in the show notes.
463
:So if you're on your Android or
mobile, on your mobile device,
464
:you can through LinkedIn send us
a voicemail or a video message.
465
:We'd love to hear from you.
466
:You can leave us a voicemail.
467
:At speakpipe.
468
:com forward slash the coaching
clinic podcast for about 90 seconds.
469
:It's completely free.
470
:You will need to use a
microphone to be able to do that.
471
:But we'd love to hear from you.
472
:How did you get started in coaching?
473
:What is your why for coaching?
474
:What are the things that you
would like to be better at?
475
:What are the challenges
to experience in coaching?
476
:We want to hear all of it.
477
:So get in touch with the show and
we will feature you on a future.
478
:Episode, but for now we're obviously
glad to have Angie back and
479
:that you're feeling much better.
480
:We've missed you.
481
:You are back, baby, and we'll
see you again very soon.
482
:Angie: All right.
483
:Bye for now.
