Finding the Right Fit: A Coach's Guide to Client Matching

Angie: 00:00:00

John,

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John: Angie

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Angie: how do you know if a client

is the right fit for you as a coach?

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John: I don't worry about that.

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If they pay their money,

they get their coaching.

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Angie: Really?

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And does that ever cause

any problems for you?

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John: Yes, endless problems.

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Help me, Angie.

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Angie: Okay, but you have to

say the magic words first.

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John: Let's start the show.

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Angie: Okay, so John, this is such an

interesting space because my feeling

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is, and I think I did this, But when

you're starting out as a coach and you're

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starting your practice that you don't

turn anybody away I think there's a

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belief that you don't turn anybody away

and I don't know about you, but I learned

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pretty quickly that we should not do that

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John: 100%.

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I don't know if there's any

coaches who don't go through this.

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I'd love to hear from anyone

who hasn't had that experience.

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they must have been very well

mentored to not go through that.

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But yeah, for me, absolutely.

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And, I would go further than that to say

that, Of course, there were people who

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we just didn't gel as coach and client

and guess whose fault I thought that

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was?

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Angie: Shame on you

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Right?

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John: thought it was on me.

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Yeah, I thought it was all on me.

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I'm a bad coach.

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Maybe I shouldn't be doing this.

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So perhaps I've chosen the wrong job.

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Maybe I should just go back to working

for my old airline or something like that.

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Yeah, it happens a lot.

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Angie: glad you didn't do that.

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So glad you didn't listen to those stories

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John: Me too.

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Angie: yeah, because it's just not true.

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There are so many things that can affect

coaching and not just in the one session,

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but even like the overall process.

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with a specific client.

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And I think that one of the first things

that I, or the first mistakes that

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I made was that if I had this belief

that if every session individually, Was

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not a home run that I was a bad coach.

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Now of course, I'm calling BS on that.

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John: No, I did too.

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I judge.

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I think I was very much on a

curve of my coaching was only

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as good as my last session.

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So if a session had gone really

well i'd be feeling great Oh,

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yeah, I did make the right choice.

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I'm such a good coach blah blah blah.

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Yeah Okay, maybe that was a bit a little

bit lacking in humility, but then Would

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inevitably Be followed up at some point

by a session that really didn't go well.

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In fact some absolute horrors came

up in my earlier days of coaching.

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Now I know how to deal with

them, but then I didn't.

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And I just thought it was me.

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So when a client one time started

ranting at me over the phone, cause

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this was a phone coaching I was

doing in my earlier days, not zoom.

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We didn't even have that.

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I figured it was me.

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It was me that was the problem that

she was probably right with all the

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stuff that she was saying It's like

I didn't have enough confidence in my

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coaching ability to be able to handle

that and field it and say you know what?

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Maybe we're just not a good fit

as coach and client because now I

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think coaches are more like cologne,

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know Well,

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Angie: Tell

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John: We could be very nice, and we

can have some nice fancy packaging,

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but we're not right for everyone.

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I'm

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Angie: I agree.

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I think I have to say, and obviously

that's where we were going with this, is

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that we are not a fit for every client and

every client is not a fit for us, right?

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That is part of my process.

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I absolutely will always do about a

45 minute discovery call, not just

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to say, Hey, what are your goals?

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Let me show you how I can help you.

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That's not it.

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Okay.

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Bye.

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I'm doing it, and I even tell them, I will

even say to a prospect on the phone, this

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is an opportunity for us to see Whether

we're a good fit, whether there's rapport,

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whether we can build trust in each

other, you need to trust me as your coach

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and I need to trust you as the client.

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And there's always that, oh, oh,

like there's surprise because even

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I think the clients maybe feel

like, It's an automatic fit, right?

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Like I just want to come on this

discovery call and I just want to

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tell you all the things I want to do.

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And I want you to tell me that you

can help me and then we're going

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to sign papers and do the contract.

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And that is the worst, worst thing

that you could do as a coach is to

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allow that to happen in that way.

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So how do you do it, though?

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How do you and this is a very, I'm

directing this at you how do you

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decide whether somebody is a good fit?

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What's the criteria?

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John: Firstly, I need to know that there

Problem is the right kind of fit for

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the sort of thing I'm looking to work

with and that the goal that they're

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aiming for is something that I can

help them achieve and that we're going

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to be able to clearly measure that.

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I also am looking for their

coachability, are they going to be

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responsive

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to the coaching?

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Are they going to be open to getting

some authentic feedback, which is

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my nice way of saying tough love and

are we gonna have fun in the process?

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Hopefully.

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Angie: I love that because I

think my number one is I have

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to, while I'm speaking to them,

I'm looking to get a feel.

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Because it is a coaching session, right?

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My Discovery Calls isn't just Q& A.

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I'm kind of coaching them along, after the

first couple of minutes of introduction

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and niceties and warming up a little bit.

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And the number one thing that I'm looking

for, because we all know, if John's the

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nice one, His level of tough love is very

different than mine, and that's okay.

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I'm not saying that I'm,

browbeating anybody.

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I'm just saying that I'm very direct.

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So I need to see if the client, the

prospect is coachable through and through.

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Right?

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That they're not gonna

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run when it gets tough.

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That I'm not going to, put a nice little

bow on their problem and make it okay.

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That's just, so their coachability is

the number one thing that I look for.

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Because otherwise, it's a bad

experience for everybody can ruin your

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reputation, and it can be exhausting.

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Exhausting.

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You're laughing because you

know what I'm talking about.

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John: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

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It's just different styles.

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I want to get a sense very clearly that

we're both going to get better things

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So I want to frame it up for them that

it's okay At the end of our chat if they

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feel it's not the right fit I want them

to be able to say so honestly Without

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feeling that there's going to be any

problem that we can still walk away

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friends and that I will do the same for

them and If I'm not the right fit for

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them as a coach, I'll do my best to try

and direct them to who I think would be.

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Angie: You and I did that

right before the show, right?

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I think it's great to be a resource

for somebody I think that people

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so appreciate that you're not just

going, sorry, we're not a good fit.

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Good luck in your search.

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You're giving them direction A lot can

happen in 45 minutes to an hour, right?

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In a conversation, if

you're a good coach, right?

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So I think being a resource for

somebody is something that they may

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even refer you and say, you know what?

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I didn't end up using Angie or John,

but they directed me to somebody

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and What a great experience that

was I wasn't left high and dry

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because obviously they're coming to

you and even having a Conversation

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because there's a need in their life.

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There's something they need So I think

that is an amazing best practice and

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Making that introduction is a phenomenal

way to continue to build that rapport

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and build that relationship with somebody

and honor them Right still serve.

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John: But basically, I think you

also need to dig straight into

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what's really going on for them.

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And so you don't just want

it to be a nice conversation.

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You want to really get into it

and get the sense of, do you feel

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that reading between the lines

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are they giving you

what's really going on?

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Yeah.

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Or are you going to be, at

some point uncovering a whole

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cat of worms, potentially.

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You do want to get that sense for them,

and ideally even maybe be able to deliver

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a little bit of magic in that first

session to help with what's going on for

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them, if you are the right coach for them.

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So, I think that initial session is

going to set the tone for everything

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you do together, and if it doesn't go

well, then that's a very clear sign

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that that's not going to be a good fit.

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Angie: definitely.

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Absolutely.

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And I think, getting rid

of that hero mentality.

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So what do I mean by that?

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That I can work with anybody.

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I can fix anybody, which is not really

what coaching is, but I can help anybody.

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I can save anybody,

whatever, fill in the blank.

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That is, sometimes you need to let that

go and say, no, this isn't going to work.

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And I've had to do it.

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I've not even just said no.

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Maybe there have been times when

I've gone against my instinct

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cause I felt like, well, maybe.

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And then by like session two, I'm

thinking this is a really bad fit.

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So I will do a re reconnect and

say, let's just have another

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real conversation and gauge it.

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Okay.

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And if it's not going to work, I am very

respectful and I've had to, I've probably

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done that like twice in my career where

I'm already in the relationship and

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I've had to break off the relationship.

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Had to do it.

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And the last thing that I do in that

scenario is I don't want the person to

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feel rejected I really make it about them.

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You know what now that we're doing

some work together I feel like there

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might be better options for you

because of You know give them the

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couple of reasons why I don't go

around telling that they're fucked up.

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That's not it okay, that's not it because

we all are let's just face it, but having

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enough respect for them and the craft and

the art of coaching and maturity to say,

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you know what, this is not going to work.

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I don't want to have a 45 or 60

minute session that feels like I've

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been on a treadmill at high speed at

the maximum incline for eight hours.

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And it's happened, so that

could be an indicator too.

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It's not just, are they receptive?

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They can be receptive, but

they can also be exhausting.

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So that's something that I watch

out for because I'm, believe

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it or not, Very empathetic.

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I absorb energy, so I have to be

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very

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John: we, we, all do as coaches,

I think we all do, we all, we are

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all at risk of getting a little

bit too attached or associated into

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whatever issues we're hearing about.

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But, I think this might be where I'm

perhaps turn the tape, turn the tide of

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opinion about who's the nice one here.

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Because we might handle this

thing a little bit differently.

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But I say this just to just be

honest about where I am as a coach.

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So I did have a client one time,

like she was showing up for her

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sessions and all she would really

do is complain, complain about work,

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complain about family, complain about

how crappy her life was and as a coach.

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I ain't got time for it.

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I'm not interested in spending 30 minutes

once a week hearing somebody complain.

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It's like, okay, yeah,

she's paying for the time.

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It's her time to use for that.

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But I don't want it.

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I don't want to take that on.

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And I don't want to hear it.

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And I don't want to deal with it.

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I'm not the right coach for her.

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Put her with another coach who's much

more tolerant than I am, and so she

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could go in there and do that, but

who also was, he was doing a very nice

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job of bringing her down and actually

getting her into some conversation,

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which I was perhaps struggling to do.

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On those calls because it was just

letting her rip and go on the rants.

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I don't want to work

with people like that.

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I want to work with people who want to

get down to it, who show up with some

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good energy, with an intent to make things

happen, or with an issue that they really

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want to deal with, not just whinging

about how bad things are for them.

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Angie: Yeah, I think there's some

people out there, mentors of mine even.

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I've worked for a couple of coaching

companies, as you know, and there was

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some really intensive training involved.

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And a lot of it is, getting them out

of, cause I call that, you know, I

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call that dirty diaper syndrome, right?

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Who wants to sit in a dirty diaper?

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It's a visual I use with my clients.

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It's a lot when I feel that they're

getting stuck and I'll say to them,

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let me just pause for a minute.

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Like, how long do you want

to sit in that dirty diaper?

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And they look, they go, what,

like, what are you talking about?

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And I say, well, a dirty diaper.

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Think about it.

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It's not pleasant.

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It's actually a little shocking that

I would say something so disgusting.

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That's the point that I'm bringing out.

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If you're sitting and if you're not going

to, the answer is you're not going to.

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And mindset can become that.

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So I think sometimes when I throw

them that visual, it jars them

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out of it, but it doesn't always

solve the problem ongoing, right?

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Because some people just do like

to complain and I'm with you.

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If they're, I'll give them like,

I'll give them like, The one or two

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kind of get out of jail free card.

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I'll do my best to, pivot

them and shift them a bit.

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And if they just can't get out of

their own way, then I'm with you.

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And I love, listen, I tease and

I say, John is the softer one.

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And I would say that John is extremely

and maybe it's your background.

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I don't know.

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But.

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He doesn't mess around.

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Like he's very upfront and

doesn't sugarcoat anything.

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I think it's just our delivery

method that's different.

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John: think it's just people hear

my accent and they think I'm, I've

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just come out of Downton Abbey or

something and and I seem that I seem

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polite and I'm reasonably well spoken.

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I think that probably is what it is.

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But i'm not rude, i'm not rude.

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I'm not looking to offend anyone

I'm not looking to upset anyone.

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I want to always want to frame stuff

up in a way that it's going to be well

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received and that to be honest, you

don't ideally you don't want your clients

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becoming defensive unless you have a

very Interesting coaching strategy,

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sometimes a bit of provocative coaching

actually, you know is what is relevant

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But you probably don't want to be doing

provocative coaching and a discovery

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Probably so we'll maybe get onto that

another time, but I'm not even going

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to have the money conversation, the

logistics conversation or anything

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like that until I know they're a fit.

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And if they're going but I really need

to know how much this is going to be.

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The only thing I'm going to ask him

is the money a concern right now?

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Are you worried that you won't

be able to afford my services?

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And If that's the case, then, okay,

maybe this isn't the best time

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for us to have this conversation.

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That's the thing I'm gonna, that's the

thing I'm gonna get out of the way first.

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And if you say, no, no, it's not that.

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Then fine, let's have the conversation

and then we'll figure out if we're

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the right fit, we'll have, we'll carry

on with that part of the conversation

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where we talk about how this works.

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Angie: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think

keeping some some semblance of

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process within the sessions, or even

in that first conversation, I think

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they, that it makes sense to do that.

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We don't want to come in willy nilly.

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I'm not saying we have to stick rigid to

something, but I think that some of my

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best sessions with people that it works

best when I do have a difficult client.

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And honestly, I think a lot of my

clients just are difficult because

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their challenges are difficult.

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It's not necessarily

that they're difficult.

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And I think keeping some kind of

process in play makes it so much

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easier to go through the session

and not having the expectation.

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of this is what we need

to get out of today.

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We can set intention for sure, but I think

we also need to know how to keep the flow

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so that it can still happen organically,

if that even makes sense, right?

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John: Yeah I would look at it also as a

way to practice being authentically honest

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with your clients or potential clients.

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Because it is that.

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It's like you, you are going to have

to get comfortable at saying no to

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people who are not a right fit for you.

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And saying it in the way that's

going to make them feel that

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you are doing it for them.

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Not not it's not that you don't like

them It's just that this isn't going to

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work out well because you don't feel the

fit and maybe actually saying why that

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is So so that there can be clarity on

that as well or why you think they might

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be better off working with someone else

I think that's all good practice and

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it's going to help you perhaps be a bit

more honest And direct in your coaching.

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Framing things in the right way,

that's gonna allow people to respect

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what you say more as a coach,

because they feel that they're gonna

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get some honest feedback from you.

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Angie: I think, yes, I think that

you're 10, 000 percent correct on that.

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And I think one of the, one of the

ways that you can do that so that it is

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received well in case it doesn't work

out is when you get on that call, right?

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Hey, how are you?

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It's great.

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Says, glad you're here.

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Curious to find out what brought

you here, what you're looking for.

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Before we get started.

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I just want to be clear on a few things,

what the purpose is of this call.

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It is not just for me to find out

what your problems and challenges are.

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It's to see if we're a good

fit and that would include

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up, up, up, up, up, whatever.

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And then say.

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So that at the end of the call, if I

think that maybe I'm not the best fit for

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you and what you need, I can then maybe

refer you to somebody who is, because

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obviously you're looking to make changes.

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You're looking to get

better at X, Y, or Z.

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I saw what you filled out.

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That's the expectation.

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So I think if you say something like

that in the beginning, if it does

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come down to it not being a good fit.

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They've already been told that that's a

possibility, that it just may not work.

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I may not be a right fit for you.

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We're going to have that

conversation and no harm, no foul.

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So it doesn't get taken personally.

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And again, they don't feel rejected.

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Because I think that's a horrible

feeling because again, most people I

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think just go, Oh, I chose the coach.

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So therefore it's a match.

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And that's not the case at all.

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Setting that standard or that

expectation right at the beginning

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Hey, this is what we do during, this

is what I do during a discovery call.

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Then I think it feel it takes away the

sting a bit in case it doesn't work out.

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John: have you ever had this

situation, which I've had, if

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I'm gonna pay you 10,000 bucks.

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what happens if I don't get my money's

worth or how am I going to make sure

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that I get value for money before

you've even started working together?

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Angie: Yeah, so I get less

than I'm really clear.

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I think I've had a couple of

people because some of my coaching

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is more than that, but Right.

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So they're looking for the value add.

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And first thing I say is number one,

neither of us has a crystal ball.

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I don't know how this is going to turn

out, but I will tell you that there's

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a couple of components that are going

to directly affect your outcomes.

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Number one, what is it

that you're looking for?

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What is right now you're

coming in with a certain goal.

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What is that goal?

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Number two, are you open to things that

you haven't even thought of, right?

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Because that's the beauty of

coaching is like something

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popped up that I didn't expect.

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And number three, how

are you gauging that?

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How are you going to gauge the success

of this relationship or this journey?

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I think if we talk about that now,

There's an understanding, right?

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But if you come to me at the end

of 10 or 12 sessions or whatever

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it is in the program or the process

I don't want to be surprised.

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I want to know what their expectation

is, what they're really looking for.

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And I think that's part

of that vetting process.

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Because if they say I don't know if

it's a business coaching situation or

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leadership or something and they say

I want to be making a million dollars

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at my job by the end of this, I'm

going to be like, wait a minute, what?

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Yeah.

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Me too.

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Where's my Lambo?

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But, um, do you know what I mean?

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Like I want to see what their

expectation is so I can coach into

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that and see, is that really the

thing or is it pie in the sky?

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Come on, is it realistic?

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Derek.

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and I tell them, I said, you know what?

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I am the coach.

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I am the pace car of what we do, right?

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I know that you trust me.

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I have to trust that there's things that

you're going to be responsible for showing

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up vulnerable, showing up authentic.

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And I think that vulnerability

piece is the key.

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So I asked them, are you willing to?

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And I actually make them make that

commitment in the conversation.

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And it's also in my paperwork.

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We've agreed, we've spoken about this.

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Y

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John: He's what I love that and I agree

that you want to get that level of clarity

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on the relationship together and the

outcomes that are expected, but I'd also

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say one of the things I'll frame up with

them as well is it is your responsibility

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to direct me on how to do that.

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You're being coached.

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So if you're not feeling happy with a

coaching session or you don't feel that

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you have clarity or that the coaching

isn't going well, if it turns out that

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this discovery call decision to work

together has not been the right decision,

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I want you to be honest about that and be

honest about it sooner rather than later.

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And we will figure it out and we will

find a very nice way to be able to

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park company as friends And make sure

that we move on from there But yeah,

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like you said if we wait too long on

that or if you get to the end of it

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all and it's that was a waste of money.

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I'm not gonna give you your money back.

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It's like

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Angie: No, no, no.

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And I don't think that we should

because it would be very easy for

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somebody to go, yeah, you know what?

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I want my $10,000 back.

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That wasn't what I thought.

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: 00:22:19

Well, really.

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So we do have to set that

expectation from the beginning.

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John: Yeah

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: 00:22:24

Angie: and then the other thing

that I do though is I do a check-in

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at the end of every session.

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And then I do a incremental check in.

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So if they sign up, let's just say

for 12 sessions every fourth session

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at the end of the fourth session,

I go, okay, over the last four

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sessions, this is what we've done.

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how do you feel about that?

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: 00:22:42

Is there anything that you

would like to see different?

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And I will ask them, do

you need more, tough love?

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Do you need more compassion?

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: 00:22:50

What is going to enhance this

experience in going forward?

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: 00:22:54

So.

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I do do that check in because our

perception that things are going

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: 00:22:59

well doesn't mean that's true.

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: 00:23:02

And then on the opposite, sometimes

we think, I don't feel like

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I'm giving them what they need.

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: 00:23:07

But meantime, they're like, Oh my

gosh, I value this, this, and this,

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: 00:23:11

this is what's changing for me.

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: 00:23:12

Oh, It's not for us to decide what's

really moving the needle sometimes.

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: 00:23:16

We have to really listen

to what they want.

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: 00:23:18

So I do those two things.

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: 00:23:20

I, at the end of every session I'll

ask, what they loved or what they valued

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: 00:23:23

or fill in the blank in that session.

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Not because I need the pat on

the back, but because I want to

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: 00:23:28

gauge what worked for them in that

particular session and then doing

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: 00:23:32

those incremental check ins as well.

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: 00:23:34

John: Yeah.

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: 00:23:34

Yeah.

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: 00:23:34

Yeah.

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: 00:23:35

We should always be hungry for feedback.

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: 00:23:37

Angie: on the pulse.

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: 00:23:38

Yeah.

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: 00:23:38

John: Yeah.

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: 00:23:39

Yeah.

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: 00:23:39

We need feedback from our clients

and we should check in, make sure

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: 00:23:42

that we check in with them regularly.

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: 00:23:43

And I think some coaches are

afraid of getting the feedback,

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: 00:23:46

but you can't be, it's going to,

it's going to be how you improve.

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: 00:23:49

I think this has been a good conversation.

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: 00:23:51

I think we've come up with some

really cool stuff that is hopefully

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: 00:23:53

helpful if you're thinking about

how do you get the right kind of

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: 00:23:56

clients and what do you do if somebody

isn't the right kind of client?

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: 00:23:58

Well, maybe in your early days, you will

work with them and you just have to deal

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: 00:24:01

with it and get the lessons from that

same as most coaches do, but at some

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: 00:24:05

point, at some point you're going to

need to start saying no and firing those

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: 00:24:09

clients who are a pain in the backside.

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: 00:24:11

And that's where you're really going

to start to take off as a coach.

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: 00:24:14

This has been a lot of fun, Angie.

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: 00:24:15

I've really enjoyed this conversation.

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: 00:24:17

Should we come back and

do it again next time?

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: 00:24:19

Angie: I think so.

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: 00:24:19

Bye.

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: 00:24:20

John: All right, well come and join us

for that and do remember tell your friends

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: 00:24:23

about us and we'll see you next time