Mastering Follow-Up: The Key to Creating Coaching Income
Mastering Follow-Up in Your Coaching Business
In this episode, John & Angie discuss the importance of follow-up in business, particularly within the coaching industry. They address common pitfalls such as poor or lack of follow-up, which many coaches suffer from due to fears and doubts, including imposter syndrome and the discomfort of sales conversations.
Explore the root causes of these challenges, such as overthinking and fear of rejection, and how these fears can hinder business growth. Our hosts share their own struggles with follow-up and sales, emphasizing the shift in mindset required to overcome these issues. They suggest viewing sales not as a dreaded task but as providing opportunities and solutions to clients.
John and Angie delve into practical solutions like adopting a business identity, utilizing Customer Relationship Management (CRM) tools for effective follow-up strategies, and the significance of consistent client outreach programs. They stress the importance of aligning one's identity with being a business owner, setting clear business goals, and the pivotal role of self-discipline in ensuring success.
Both hosts advocate for understanding one's worth and charging accordingly, treating the coaching practice as a legitimate business rather than a hobby. The conversation concludes with a call to action for coaches to implement systems and processes for follow-up, ensuring they don't miss out on potential business opportunities due to inadequate client communication.
00:00 Opening Banter: The Fortune's Location
01:06 The Importance of Follow-Up in Business
02:04 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome and Fear of Sales
05:36 The Journey to Charging What You're Worth
07:09 Embracing a Business Mindset and Identity Shift
17:33 The Power of CRM Systems for Effective Follow-Up
21:42 Choosing the Right CRM and Making It Work for You
25:34 Conclusion: The Game Changer for Coaches
Transcript
John,
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:John: Angie?
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:Angie: if I said to you, where's
the fortune, what would you say?
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:John: I'd say, where is it Angie?
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:Let me at it!
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:Let me at it!
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:Angie: John, it's an expression, John.
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:The fortune is in Fill in the blank.
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:John: The bank?
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:Angie: Not.
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:John: The safe?
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:Angie: No.
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:John: The fridge?
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:Angie: What?
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:No.
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:Let's start the show.
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:what do you think one
of the most important?
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:Practices is in terms of your business.
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:John: Oh, that, that word I
couldn't get before follow up.
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:The thing that most people miss
out on either don't do it well, or
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:in most cases, just don't do it.
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:And I've been guilty of it.
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:I will hold my hands up.
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:I have been guilty of it.
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:I've been guilty of bad follow up
and I've been guilty of no follow up.
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:And so I think perhaps we should look at.
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:Things like what what follow up
should look like or could look
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:like And perhaps even some of
the reasons why we don't do it
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:Angie: Absolutely.
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:I could say the same thing in
any business that I've been in.
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:What has held me back from expanding
or actually not even expanding, like
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:gaining that initial traction was
my lack of follow up, but I know
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:what my big why was behind that.
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:I'd love to hear what yours is.
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:John: Behind not following up,
Some of the, I think some of the
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:imposter syndrome kicks in for me,
the bit of who am I to be doing this?
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:And also the thing of, if I actually
do this, then we're gonna have to
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:get into a whole big conversation.
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:I'm gonna have to sort out bits that
all this stuff starts to kick to my
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:head about this, but this, but this.
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:And then I end up overthinking it,
which probably is the biggest issue.
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:I overthink it and then
I don't take action.
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:And I think they're very tied together.
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:So if I think about my own experience,
I don't think I was consciously thinking
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:this, but I definitely was in that
space of what if they actually say yes.
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:Right.
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:And it's so much easier.
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:I think to be working
on your business, right?
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:Like I have all the things to do.
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:I'm busy doing things.
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:Try to make connections and then
you actually make connection.
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:It
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:happens.
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:Woohoo.
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:Yay.
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:John: Yeah.
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:The rubber
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:hits the road, right?
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:Angie: Yeah, Yeah.
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:John: And that perhaps is one of the
biggest things of it's easy to have all
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:these conceptual ideas and to imagine.
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:Oh, and this is a big
thing in the personal and
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:professional development world.
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:We visualize the future that we want
to create, we set goals around it and
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:stuff, but very often we don't really
think about what the practical actions
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:are that need to be happening to
get us to business results, such as.
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:Getting on the triage calls, the
discovery calls or getting on some
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:prospecting and sales calls, essentially
reaching out to people and signing
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:them up when they are interested.
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:And when you need to follow up with
them, it's all practical stuff.
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:And people have fear about getting
on calls with people for sure.
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:I've had that as well.
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:And we have fear around sales
fear of how now I can't do
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:sales, or I don't like sales.
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:I hear that more than Anything
else from coaches and speakers
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:alike about challenges for why
they don't make the phone calls?
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:Angie: I, yeah.
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:I mean, you're hitting every single point.
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:And I think the fear
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:piece is definitely the bigger piece.
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:What are we afraid of?
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:We're afraid of the connection.
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:Why?
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:Why are we afraid to
have those conversations?
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:And I think for some people.
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:This was my experience and I've
met many people who it ties in
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:with that imposter syndrome.
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:It's like, how am I having a
conversation with somebody that I
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:don't know, works for NASA, right?
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:What can I possibly offer to them?
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:or they feel that they're not
in alignment with a giving of
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:themselves being a coach, right?
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:Somebody who's setting out to help
other people and then getting paid.
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:So they become really uncomfortable with
that actual conversation of charging
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:what they're worth and all those things.
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:So it's just easier not
to have the conversation.
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:It's just easier to kind of
go, well, I didn't, I forgot.
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:And we don't systematize.
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:That's maybe something for later, it
happened to me by the time I actually
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:realized I did have a business.
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:I didn't have a CRM.
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:I had no system.
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:And there I was with my ink
and my paper, going, all right,
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:wait, when was I supposed to?
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:So for me, it was that mindset piece.
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:And then it was a system to
follow up with my system, right?
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:I had this great system of getting in
touch with people, but then I had no
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:system in place to follow up with them.
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:John: Oh boy.
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:These are, look, these things, I think we
can cover some of this a little bit today,
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:but we can have whole episodes certainly
about charging what you're worth.
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:Like I, I heard you talking on
a very popular podcast recently
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:about that very subject.
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:It would be great for us to
do a show on that for coaches.
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:And I even have a mentor.
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:One of the reasons I went with him
was because I wasn't charging what
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:I was worth as a coach and helped
me to get past that and get into it.
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:But also this whole thing of
systemizing and things like that.
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:I think we can cover some
aspects of that today.
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:Yeah, there's probably more
than one episode as well.
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:Angie: Just a little.
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:John: yeah.
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:But it's super, super important
to have this understanding about
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:why we might not be taking action.
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:What tips you over into not taking
the action to actually taking it?
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:What got you there?
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:Angie: I literally had
to shift my mindset.
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:I really had to turn it into
a business mindset, right?
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:Not the, I'm going to save
the world mindset, right?
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:Which was that initial piece for me.
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:And then I really had to take a step
back and say, okay, how do I feel
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:comfortable having these conversations?
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:Because even when I shifted
into, all right, I'm just going
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:to have these conversations.
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:I still felt uncomfortable
having a sales conversation.
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:That was really hard for me.
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:That was my.
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:Biggest nemesis was that
mindset of this is a sales call.
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:This isn't like a, this
isn't a discovery call.
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:It shifted in my mind.
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:You're laughing.
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:Go ahead.
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:John: I'm laughing because of my own
experience of yeah, probably same things
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:going on for me and it's on my head.
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:What shifted?
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:There were a few things
that shifted for me.
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:One was actually getting
some coaching around this.
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:I we've mentioned this before
on the show about treating
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:your business as a business.
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:I feel like I wasn't I wasn't initially
early on in as a coach I was not
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:treating my business as a business.
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:I was treating it as I
don't know, a bit of fun.
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:Not even that.
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:I just wasn't thinking of
myself as a business person.
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:I didn't consider myself
to be entrepreneurial.
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:I'd come from like full time
employment and didn't know the
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:first thing really about business.
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:So it was identity to some degree.
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:That's not who I am, but also
just not really understanding
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:what were the right things to do.
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:To do and not finding out about them.
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:And even when I did know them being
scared of them, because it was new
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:and I wasn't good at those things.
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:So what got me past that
was working in sales.
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:For a while now.
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:I'm not a natural.
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:I'm not a natural sales person.
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:I'm not naturally Oh, i'm the person who
should be out there selling stuff, but it
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:got me over my own stuff Making the calls,
repetition repetition and really help me
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:wrap my head around This is how you have
to think about this is how business works
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:if this stuff isn't happening You don't
have a business you have a hobby maybe
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:Angie: yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:No, listen, and we've heard that, right?
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:Like this is not a business.
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:This is a hobby.
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:Yes.
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:I've heard that so many
times from other people.
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:And I think that's, there's a
line you have to cross over.
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:It's you just have to go over that hump a
bit and say, okay, I'm going to do this.
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:And I had a very strong, unlike you,
my whole beginnings were in sales.
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:Now it started out as like
retail management, low level,
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:like here's a key, open the gate
tomorrow at nine, kind of a thing.
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:But my interactions with people is
what grew me into what I do now.
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:And it was funny because I think I said
to myself one day you've been selling your
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:whole life, but for other people, right?
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:So if you were going to sell for
yourself, what does that really look like?
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:And it shifted in my mind from sales to.
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:Opportunity.
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:Offering.
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:What is it that I'm really looking to do,
even if it comes from my heart and my gut.
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:And that was the thing for me.
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:That's what crossed me over.
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:It was like, you really have to think
about this as I'm here to provide a
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:service for you and better things for you.
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:John: Two key points for me there.
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:One, one is really adopting
that identity of I'm a business
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:person and this is my business.
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:That was, that was like, identity is
a really important area in coaching.
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:If you don't ever work with it, play
with it because it packs a lot of value.
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:In terms of how we think of ourselves
and who we think of ourselves as I
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:had to get out of a long time, but I
had to get out of thinking of myself
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:as this sort of fun, loving trolley,
dolly flight attendant flying.
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:Angie: What's a trolley dolly?
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:John: Flight attendant.
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:Angie: I didn't know that, that I
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:learned something new today.
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:John: trolley dolly is a flight
attendant For those who don't
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:know more of maybe more of an
english phrase than anything else
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:but that was my identity.
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:That's how I thought of myself.
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:Customer service focused,
hospitality focused.
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:And that's who I was.
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:So I had to switch out of that
identity into, into this one.
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:That was quite a journey for me,
but also it was knowing what to do
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:and then getting myself to do it.
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:And so I wonder how much of a part of this
you maybe feel self discipline is, cause
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:I think it might be quite significant.
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:Angie: I agree.
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:I think you and I are speaking
that same language even though we
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:came from very different arenas.
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:I think that the key takeaway from
it is the first thing you really
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:have to do before you start having
those conversations is deciding
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:who you are as the business owner.
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:Right.
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:You're the CEO.
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:You're the president of this business,
no matter how small it is starting out.
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:And if you want to present yourself
effectively, really, who is it?
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:How do you want to be
received and perceived?
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:That's really important.
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:Like I want to be received as a,
or I wouldn't be perceived as a,
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:like a, for that, the professional
that I am as that person.
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:And I think the more that we kind
of practice that mindset and then
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:we have something of value to
offer, the easier it is to then
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:start having those conversations.
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:Because if we're not comfortable in
those conversations, you know this, the
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:other person, the person on the other
end of that phone or, the video or
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:the whatever on the conversation, you
know, they can smell it a mile away.
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:It's like a junkyard dog with
a piece of meat a mile, like
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:they know they can smell it.
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:blah,
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:John: Yeah this is, this was an important
thing that I learned in sales, I think
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:as well, which I keep with me now
that that conversation around money is
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:only awkward when we make it awkward.
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:The sales conversation is only awkward
when we make it awkward There's really
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:nothing to be afraid of but the only way
we're really going to get to a level of
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:feeling confident about it and Feeling
capable is repetition And that's a hard
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:thing to do when you feel like There's
business on the line when you feel like
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:you really need the clients right now
that you don't feel like you can risk
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:That you can risk a sales call not
going well like a discovery call leading
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:into that say that sales transition.
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:That's not the only way To bring
in clients though, of course,
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:one to one calls are not the only
way sales calls is not the only
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:way to bring in coaching clients.
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:So it may be that you can also explore
some other ways, but I'll tell you one of
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:the reasons why I ended up working with.
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:Chris Ducker, who's one of my business
mentors and still is, and a friend as
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:well, is that I heard him say one time
on a podcast with Pat Flynn that if you
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:don't have something for sale on your
website, you're not really in business.
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:And that was a wake up to me of,
ah, what's for sale on my website?
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:It's like, okay, there's a podcast
there, there's some signup forms there,
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:there's some downloads and things like
that, but what's actually for sale there?
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:There was nothing for sale there.
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:I went and fixed that that same day.
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:I reached out to Chris
Vanna, how I work with him.
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:And that was a transformative
experience as well.
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:This is so important to make sure
that you do actually make it easy
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:for people to buy from you, that
you're clear on what you're selling.
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:Selling and you set things up so that
people can buy from You have the process
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:and the system to do that whether
whether it's one to one phone calls
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:Whether it's some online form whether
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:it's webinars group sessions podcasts
or whatever else you're using to
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:sell That they that you make it
easy for people to sign up for
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:Angie: I definitely agree with that.
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:You want to, I think the more you have
to be comfortable with who you are.
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:Who are you?
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:What is your offering?
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:And you need to be able, this kind
of goes into that repetition space,
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:like you need to be able to, and it's
not necessarily the elevator speech
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:thing, but it's like, who am I?
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:Right?
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:Absolutely.
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:As a coach, right?
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:What am I really like?
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:We don't want some like,
oh, I'm the truth seeker.
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:Like it's not that right?
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:It's not that it's what
am I really offering?
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:And I think the more comfortable you
become with your product and service
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:And not make it about you because it's
not about you, but you're making it all
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:about you That's why the mindset thing
comes in the minute you stop making it
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:about you and you focus on that other
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:piece I
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:think it becomes much easier when we
know how to have the conversation.
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:And I know that maybe this isn't for
today, but I think, you'll maybe fall
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:into the charging what you're worth
is figuring out what you're worth.
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:Cause I think that's another piece of
it is, I don't know how much to charge.
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:Should I charge 50 a
session or 600 a session?
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:So, I think that there's more to
talk about and I think becoming
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:familiar, but more comfortable with
that part of the conversation, because
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:I think, did this happen for you?
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:For me, I think I was, it was easier
for me to have the conversation
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:about offerings and whatnot.
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:But I think in the back of my
mind, I knew what was coming.
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:It was like driving to the doctor knowing
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:I was going to get a shot.
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:And that was, and the shot for me was.
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:having the money conversation.
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:That was a really big piece of it
for me, and that led me to feel a
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:little bit less comfortable with,
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:now what?
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:John: Having that figured out before you
have a conversation with anyone, it's
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:a good idea because the last thing you
want to be doing is pulling a number
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:out your butt whilst they're trying to
figure out, whilst you're trying to sort
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:out a coaching agreement with somebody.
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:But also you want to stay somewhat
consistent with that as well, because
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:you can find yourself in situations,
which I'm sure we'll cover in the future
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:of discounting when you shouldn't be
discounting and valuing your services or
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:just trying to get the client rather than.
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:Getting the right clients at the right
price that makes it worth both your time.
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:Yeah.
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:So we're all about creating
those win situations for
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:ourselves and for our clients.
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:It shouldn't be that
you lose and they gain.
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:So I do think sometimes there
is that energy of feeling that
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:we have to give, give, give.
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:I think some people become martyrs
to their coaching businesses and
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:just end up giving the house away.
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:Because they want to help, they want
to serve, and they feel that maybe
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:they're not even supposed to be
charging for that, and, it's I find
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:sometimes there are sometimes that comes
from certain religious backgrounds.
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:This whole thing of no service without
getting anything back in return.
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:I think giving with there should always
be elements in our life where we give
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:without expecting anything back in return,
and that is our service and contribution,
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:but that can't be your business because
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:that's
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:Angie: starve.
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:John: work,
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:Angie: Yeah, the lights are
gonna get turned off and you
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:are gonna have no income.
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:And again, is it your hobby?
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:Or is it your business?
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:Right?
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:That's, you know, decide.
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:Make that decision out of the gate on
what you want your business to look like.
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:What does it need to represent for you?
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:And then treat it that way,
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:John: I feel like we've looked at some of
the reasons why follow up doesn't happen
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:and we may not have covered everything
exhaustively, but undoubtedly some of the.
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:Specific ones, but what
should follow up look like?
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:Like do you have a CRM?
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:And for our audience,
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:what is A
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:Angie: no, I do, I do, because,
and it was, I honestly almost threw
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:the laptop out the window when I
finally realized I needed one, and
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:I had, excuse me, I had a bad track.
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:And put everybody in.
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:It was like, like over a thousand
people or something at the time.
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:I was like, oh my gosh,
like, can I just start over?
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:But yes, the CRM was my lifesaver.
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:It was definitely a little bit, you
know, intimidating in the very beginning.
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:But once I was shown how to create
automation, Oh my gosh, I felt like
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:I got a raise and I had time and
I was shocked because guess what?
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:I was setting up those automations and
those points of contact and I didn't
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:have to remember my ink and paper was
thrown into the fire once and for all.
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:Not initially, you know, I still have
a check register, but, but it really
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:changed the whole Baseline of my business
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:John: Yeah,
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:Angie: of staying in contact.
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:John: right.
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:And so your CRM is your customer or
client relationship management tool.
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:And so, There's a bunch of them
around and some of them are different.
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:Some of them are going to be more
suitable for if you're doing like one
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:to one client reach out and, attraction
and recruitment, even, or prospecting.
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:But there are different ones you
might want to look at using, if you're
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:doing more of a sort of a group focus,
online programs, that kind of thing.
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:I use more of the latter.
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:I use convert kit as my CRM for that,
which is a tool that allows me to
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:put people onto my newsletter to.
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:To have various promotions for them
to have emails going out that I can
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:create email campaigns because I do
believe I do believe email marketing
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:and email follow up is one of the best
tools that we can use for that to keep
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:in the keeping relationships going with
clients perspective clients, clients
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:that may come back in the future.
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:And so I think having that don't
necessarily need to have that newsletter.
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:I think too many people put too much
energy and focus into that, but having
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:regular content that is going out to your
list, whether it's five people or 5, 000
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:people or whatever, is really important
for you to create and should be considered
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:part of a business that you can then
keep that follow up going with them and
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:keep them connected, nurture them into
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:your business and make them aware when
you do have stuff to offer when you have
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:campaigns coming up and when you have
specific offers for maybe no for me, I
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:Usually have my one to one people coming
from group stuff that i've done So, so
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:I I don't really do specific reach out
for one to one client work in that way
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:Angie: Yeah, I think it was, I think
it was very eye opening for me on how
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:many different ways you could use a CRM.
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:Right.
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:And just was, it was astonishing.
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:And actually when I, when I enlisted
with the company that I use, initially
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:I had to get on the phone with them
and say, Hey, I don't even know what
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:your, your, your software can do for me.
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:This is what I do.
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:This is what I, how I'm doing it.
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:You tell me.
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:And they were like, Oh, and it was again,
mine for me, it was like mind boggling.
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:Like, Oh my, it wasn't just like
setting an email to, come out at
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:a certain day in time in advance.
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:It was so many other things.
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:It was invitations to specific groups.
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:Like if I was doing like, I don't
know, something that wasn't maybe
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:in my repertoire and I was like,
Oh, let me send in an invitation.
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:I was able to do things like
that and create, categories for
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:everybody, wasn't just one lump.
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:Some of people, right?
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:I was able to create categories within
the categories and pick and choose where I
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:was going to send things and really helped
me to, like, even if I was doing my blog,
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:I would send it, you know, or a vlog,
you know, just to Being more interactive
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:with these people in that community.
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:So loved it.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:I
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:John: a crm that you can work with and if
you're worried about costing on this Many
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:of the crms and really good ones as well
will allow you a certain level Of act,
425
:uh, of activity for free until you get to
a certain amount of list or subscribers
426
:on there So at that stage the assumption
would be that you would have income coming
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:through and if that's not happening Then
something's very wrong, but they also have
428
:a lot of tools to help you Uh, through
the processes of the kind of things that
429
:you should be doing and how to how to make
best use of their Of their tools whether
430
:it's things like, you know active campaign
Someone's i've used before says, um send
431
:peppers or yeah There's there's a whole
bunch of them out there a weber was the
432
:very first one that I used and I really
I'm, pretty sure they're still going
433
:and they're they're still pretty good.
434
:Um But check out different CRMs and figure
out which one's gonna work best for you.
435
:Looks easy to use and is gonna give
you what you need and support you.
436
:And maybe you do need to, uh, early
days look at something that's gonna
437
:be free at point of use until you get
to a certain level of list on there.
438
:Angie: think it's really important
just to piggyback on to that,
439
:that yes, you can get something
that is free for a period of time.
440
:But even while you're searching,
you know, kind of narrow it
441
:down to maybe two or three.
442
:And most of these companies will allow
you like a seven or 14 day free trial.
443
:Try and use them.
444
:You know, I take five people that you
know, or, just put five people into
445
:it and get used to like how it works.
446
:Because if you don't like it, if
you're not comfortable with it, I
447
:can promise you based on experience,
you are not going to use it.
448
:So I didn't, I didn't choose
the first one that I tried.
449
:I actually had to go through
a process and said, okay.
450
:What did I learn from that?
451
:Well, I should have picked three and
tried them out and, and before I bought,
452
:so to speak, to see what I personally
would feel more comfortable with.
453
:Some people like things that are more
techie and some people like things
454
:that are pretty, you know, like just,
it depends on what you're doing.
455
:And I think that's a really
important space is to.
456
:Before you subscribe to
anything, just give it a try.
457
:Take it for a test
458
:John: Yeah.
459
:Angie: See if you like it.
460
:John: Say this as well, if your
business is more one on one coaching
461
:and that's your style of prospecting
for clients, you want a CRM that's
462
:going to fit with that, but you also
want to make sure that you are doing
463
:the action that will get them in.
464
:So what are you doing to, what are you
doing to prospect for your clients?
465
:How are you finding them?
466
:And are you setting up
the calls with them?
467
:Are you following up with them?
468
:Cause that's part of what your CRM is for.
469
:where are you at with the customer?
470
:What stage of things that,
what was the last conversation?
471
:how was that going?
472
:When's the next conversation?
473
:So you have all this stuff in your
schedule and Being managed because
474
:there's only so much we can really
keep in our heads at any one time.
475
:Having those systems that allow us brain
extensions, if you like, that mean that
476
:we don't have to keep everything stored
in our heads so that we should always
477
:know exactly what's happening where.
478
:Use those tools that are out there
to help you stay on track with
479
:all this stuff and make sure that
you actually do the follow up.
480
:If you're having the fear around it,
if you're having some of the stuff
481
:we talked about earlier, then Get
some coaching around that yourself.
482
:Hopefully you have your own coach
and that's something we'll talk about
483
:another time, but, speak with your coach.
484
:Speak with your coach and figure
out what you can do to change that.
485
:But more than anything else is, if you're
not following up, you're missing out.
486
:you're losing money.
487
:Don't waste time beating yourself up
for all the times you haven't done that.
488
:It's not going to help you.
489
:But make a decision that
that's not who you are anymore.
490
:You're someone who does follow up.
491
:I'm the person who follows up.
492
:I'm going to take those actions.
493
:I'm going to put the systems in place
so that you To know exactly what the
494
:followup process should be with every
single person and what I should be doing
495
:with them at each stage of that, it
may take a while to fully figure that
496
:out, but it will be totally worth it.
497
:Angie: Oh my gosh.
498
:Absolutely.
499
:It is definitely the, I feel
like it's the game changer.
500
:It's the most solid piece of
the foundation of your business.
501
:mindset follow up, be prepared for
those conversations as best you can.
502
:I'm sorry, I'm still focused
on Trolley Dolly right now.
503
:Absolutely.
504
:John: whole load of coaches businesses,
but hopefully with the information
505
:that we talked about today, if
there's any elements there that you
506
:think you may be missing on, you
could shore up, you could strengthen.
507
:Take a look, check some things out, find
your CRM, find your processes and systems
508
:and set that stuff in place for yourself.
509
:we will come back.
510
:We'll be talking about some more elements
of the business side of coaching.
511
:And at some point we will be
getting into what happens inside
512
:the coaching sessions as well.
513
:So I hope you'll make sure that
you are subscribed to the show and
514
:stay tuned for, those episodes.
515
:Angie: Can't wait.
516
:Looking forward to it, everybody.
517
:John: We'll see you next time.
518
:Angie: Bye bye.
