Mastering Growth: When and How to Scale Your Coaching Practice
Scaling Up Your Coaching Business: When and How to Grow
Summary
In this episode, Angie and John discuss the timing and strategy of scaling up a coaching business. They share their personal experiences and challenges faced while growing their own businesses, emphasising the importance of monitoring progress and not rushing into expansion. They explore different scaling methods, including moving from one-on-one to group coaching, adding workshops, professional speaking, and other income streams. They stress the need for a well-thought-out plan and adapting as you go. The episode also highlights the importance of having a coach and being aware of your own capacity to avoid burnout.
You can download a free summary of the episode here: Free Summary
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Personal Growth
00:21 Opening the Coaching Clinic
00:50 Defining Scaling in Coaching
01:42 Challenges of Scaling
02:20 Personal Experiences with Scaling
03:39 First Steps in Scaling
05:00 Group Coaching as a Scaling Strategy
06:00 Balancing Quantity and Quality
08:26 Exploring Additional Income Streams
14:46 The Importance of Vision and Planning
18:23 Adapting to Changes in the Coaching Industry
23:20 Conclusion and Next Steps
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John's LinkedIn Profile or go to PresentInfluence.com for coaching enquiries with John
Angie's LinkedIn Profile or visit AngieSpeaks.com
2023 Present Influence Productions The Coaching Clinic 54
Transcript
Angie,
2
:Angie: John,
3
:John: have you grown bigger?
4
:Angie: John, I love you, but
this is getting a bit personal.
5
:John: With your business?
6
:Are you scaling up?
7
:Angie: Oh, yeah.
8
:I've heard some new things
on the go, for sure.
9
:John: How did you know it
was the right time to grow?
10
:I.
11
:Angie: maybe we should talk about
this today, if it's on your mind.
12
:John: It is absolutely.
13
:Let's open the doors
to the coaching clinic.
14
:Angie: All right, let's go.
15
:John: Angie, you and I have talked
to many people about growing
16
:and scaling their businesses and
certainly something we, we deal with
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:ourselves in our own business and I.
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:This.
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:Let's lay out what we mean when we talk
about scaling your coaching business.
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:What are we talking about?
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:Angie: So funny because was thinking about
all of this morning and I was like, it's
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:a thing that nobody really talks about.
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:I think that when people get
into, coaching or speaking, I.
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:I think that they have, and maybe you did
too, but I think that there's this mindset
25
:of I'm just gonna take everything that
comes at me and I want as much as I can.
26
:I wanna get as much as I
can, as quickly as I can.
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:And I could, I'm gonna be honest, that
could be a, the kiss of death, right?
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:If all of a
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:sudden in one week you get 10 new
clients that could be like, holy cow.
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:So yeah, I think scaling and Monitoring
how you're progressing and growing
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:is very, a very important part
of owning this type of business.
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:John: I think one of the
things that I have come across.
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:Most with people.
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:That is a big struggle point and often
an obstacle that stops people really
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:progressing with their business is trying
to get it all at getting it all right.
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:Now I want all of it just
starting and I did it.
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:I was trying to start a coaching business.
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:I, I, at the same time I
was starting a podcast.
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:I'm talking like a long time ago now.
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:With a podcast that didn't last very long.
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:I was trying, I was doing a
multi-level marketing business.
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:I was doing event management work.
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:I was doing so
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:Angie: Oh my gosh.
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:You have
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:the entrepreneurial curse.
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:John: I was spread so thin and it was
because, and it was maybe a little bit
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:of a, maybe not, just not having enough
faith in one thing to be able to deliver
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:that, that I wanted all of it, but nothing
developed as fast as it should have.
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:Everything felt painful I think we can
just be, we can be just as guilty of
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:that further on in our coaching careers
as we can in the initial stages, robbing
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:ourselves of focus or really just putting
obstacles in our own way rather than
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:growing when it makes sense to grow.
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:Angie: And I think that's a
really big question mark, though.
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:you, like you said, you and I have
been dealing with this, and I think
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:when we bring this to light like
we are right now, it then, sets
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:off this question mark immediately.
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:oh my gosh, what do you mean?
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:How do I do that?
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:Scaling.
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:Scaling, what?
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:And it is a very, I think it's like
a very uncharted territory because
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:you, and I know there's no specific
rule of thumb, although I think that
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:there are places out there that might
say, when this happens, now it's
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:time to do this, or you can do this.
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:But I'm not sure I, I really buy
in, I personally buy into that.
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:I just don't think I do.
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:I think, I think it's, part of a whole.
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:Business structure, that may be set out
in the beginning with a plan, which we've
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:talked about, a business plan, and then
give yourself maybe, little markers where
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:you say, okay, but I think that maybe
we don't know until we're actually doing
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:it, So some people for example, might
be like, oh, when I hit five clients a
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:week, then I think I'm gonna scale up.
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:Or when I get a hundred
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:John: Interesting.
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:Yeah, interesting point to do it.
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:I suspect that more coaches
really are thinking about scaling
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:when they start to max out.
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:And I could
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:Angie: Hi.
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:And you don't know that.
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:John: Until you hit it or until you're
feeling exhausted by your work level.
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:Do you have it?
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:Oh, we need to pull
things back a little bit.
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:Yeah, sometimes we don't know
until we're really in it.
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:What is actually manageable or
realistic or doable for us, and
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:Angie: What was your number, what was,
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:listen, seriously.
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:What was your number when you
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:were like, oh, I know, let me,
when I get to this number of
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:clients, I'm gonna be able to,
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:John: Because I was doing, because
I generally have worked in 30
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:minute sessions with clients.
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:My, my number really was like
between 35 and 40 when I was working
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:with 35 and 40 clients a week.
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:It was like, alright, this is exhausting.
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:It's too much.
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:And that's where I wanted
to pull back a little bit.
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:But I think the first natural point
of scaling for me and for many
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:coaches was to start looking at group
coaching rather than one-to-one,
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:and start making that transition.
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:Being able to leverage my
time more effectively and my
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:knowledge as well, but also.
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:There are a lot of advantages through,
I did an episode on this a few weeks
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:ago if you want to go and check it out.
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:Talking about scaling up to,
but it's not the right scale
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:decision for every single coach.
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:Some kinds of coaching is just
not gonna work in a group.
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:If you're doing really.
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:Personal coaching with people, they're
not gonna be open to being that
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:vulnerable with people who are outside
of that coaching relationship with you.
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:Yeah, it has to be right for you.
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:But I think for most bi percent
business coaches and most general
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:coaches scaling at the first scaling
point probably is to start making the
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:move to one-to-one to group coaching.
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:Angie: Yeah, and I felt
so, isn't it interesting?
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:Let me point this out, what you just did.
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:When we talk about scaling,
the first thing that pops into
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:people's minds is quantity.
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:It immediately we go into,
how much and how many?
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:And we, first of all, as a coach,
you do need to figure out, you
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:need to be able to identify how
many sessions you can do per week.
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:And I don't wanna say comfortably, but
where you don't feel like you're running
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:on the treadmill for all those hours
because truth, liking the truth or not.
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:The fact is you can and
will feel like that.
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:I was doing one hour
sessions and in my mind.
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:I, this is what I really thought, and I,
this is I've talked about this and it's
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:funny, I'm like, oh my gosh, if I can
get 40 clients a week and do my 40 hours,
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:because that's how we here in the States.
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:Talk about a work week.
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:Oh my gosh, I'm gonna be able to make this
much money and I'll have a world business.
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:And oh yeah, I was in one hour sessions.
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:I was nowhere near being able to do.
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:40 hours.
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:That's just, if you're doing
that, we need to talk because
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:I've yet to meet the professional
coach that can actually do that.
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:but so then when I hit that block, so
for me it was:
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:for one-to-one coaching sessions per
week where I'm still delivering a great
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:session and I don't feel exhausted
emotionally and mentally from it.
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:John: Right.
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:Angie: so that was when
my big light bulb went on.
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:So now I've done this, right?
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:I was able to accrue, these clients,
this many clients, and I thought, I
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:woke up one day and said, this is it.
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:I've hit my summit.
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:I've mapped out now what?
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:And that's when my light bulb went off.
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:And this was long before everybody
was doing it to what you just said.
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:Well, how do I make them
better use of my time?
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:It went into work,
shopping, group coaching.
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:And that's what scaling became for
me, because like everybody else, I
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:was thinking scaling was quantity
more and I couldn't do more.
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:I was like, okay, this
is like now what do I do?
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:Get a night job?
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:what?
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:So
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:I may think of a joke of
that, where do I go from here?
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:'cause that's what you wanna
do in a business now, right?
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:Aren't there people who
might say, no, I'm good.
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:I just wanna do 15 to
20 a week and I'm good.
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:That's not easy to achieve either, but
to the point that you made and what we're
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:talking about, it definitely is then about
what comes next, not necessarily how much.
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:John: Yeah, I think there's
a number of potential reasons
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:to, to want to scale as well.
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:'cause some people are gonna get to
a level that of income and client
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:flow that they are pretty happy with.
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:But it may still make sense to, to
look at some of your scaling options.
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:That could be additional sources
of income for you that might even
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:be residual or more passive income.
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:Options for you as well.
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:I think those are undoubtedly
worth considering.
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:But yeah there's always gonna be a limit
to your hours and there's gonna be a limit
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:to how much you can raise your prices.
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:So at some point, if you want to increase
your income, where do you take the
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:next step to be able to move forward?
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:Group coaching may be it for
some people, workshops may be it.
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:Even both of those options
can start to do that.
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:But there, there's much more besides,
maybe it's some professional speaking,
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:maybe it's writing the book, maybe
it's creating an online program.
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:These are all valid options, information,
products that you can sell off.
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:Again, that there's no, there's
almost no limit to, other than your
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:creativity for what you can come up
with as additional income streams or
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:additional revenue for your business.
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:Angie: I think that's, we've talked
about having those, multiple.
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:For me it's, I love to have.
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:Streams, multiple streams of income
and, keeping myself from, becoming
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:reliant on one particular stream.
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:And also why should I do that when
they can all work with each other
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:synergetically and help me create
a much broader spectrum of what
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:I am able to do as a coach, even
if I'm doing a speaking event.
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:You and I talk about this all the time.
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:Like you, we talk about storytelling
and all of the things, and I look
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:at it as I am just doing a coaching
session with, 500 people in the room.
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:That's what I'm doing.
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:it's not just to one person, but
that's my personal preference.
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:Not everybody's going to do that.
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:And I think the answer is a simple one.
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:It just comes down to your own
awareness of what you can do.
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:who thought you, and I certainly
did not become coaches thinking
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:that we were gonna become speakers.
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:I did it.
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:I don't, we've talked about it, right?
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:Some
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:John: Not
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:Angie: are like,
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:John: Yeah.
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:Angie: No, but it morphed into that
and all of a sudden, your own awareness
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:is heightened because you realize, oh,
there's potential to do something else.
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:And one to many is to me, I love it.
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:That's one of my little favorite
places is that one to many.
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:I so love my one-to-one coaching sessions,
but doing one to many lights me on.
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:Woo.
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:Fire.
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:John: And I think it's, it should be a
good thing for coaches to think about,
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:and it may be that you don't want to
be on huge stages, and that's fine.
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:They're not for everybody, but some
people do want that and that's great.
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:But it should fit, these things
can fit within you and your style,
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:but give you the opportunity.
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:It's not just about having more money.
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:Sometimes it is about having more
time freedom because I think when we.
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:We come into things like coaching, we
think we're gonna get more time freedom.
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:That doesn't always work that way
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:Angie: I love
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:that.
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:Isn't that.
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:great?
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:That should
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:John: do you find, but I.
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:Angie: stand up.
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:Oh, sure.
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:John: I already do.
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:Yeah.
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:Maybe you've had this
experience as well, right?
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:I think we probably both have, and I'm
sure we're not the only coaches you have
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:that one of the things you think, oh, I'm
gonna be the, I'm gonna be my own boss.
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:I'm gonna be in charge.
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:I'll say what else?
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:I do wanna say to a point, but you
may actually find yourself working
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:harder than before, especially as.
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:You are responsible for most of, most, if
not all of your results in your business.
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:And you have to put in the
time and the work to do.
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:Early days, there just tends to
be that level of hustle and grind
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:John: to do to get a business
off the ground, but we can't.
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:Do hustle and grind forever.
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:At some point we have to pull
back, especially if we are
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:in later years of our lives.
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:You just can't keep that
going without burning out.
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:And so many people do burn out.
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:This is your, one of your specialties and,
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:Angie: Yeah, it know,
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:John: you help people with burnout.
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:So common and I, one of the things
I get people coming to me about
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:so often is that they are doing.
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:Feel like they're doing everything.
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:They're not getting any results.
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:They're trying to be on all
the social media platforms.
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:They're trying to, they're doing
the blog, the podcast, the book,
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:the con, they're doing it all,
and they're doing all the scale at
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:once that, and they're forgetting.
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:Or maybe not realizing that
everyone, they see who's doing
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:all those things has a whole team
of people helping them to do it.
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:John: And for most of most coaches out
there, it's just you or maybe you and
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:a va or maybe you and your kid or your
one of your relations is helping out.
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:It's like
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:Angie: Somebody who knows
something better than you.
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:John: right.
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:Angie: and I think all
of that is true, right?
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:This kind of, really this topic leads
into so many different practices
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:within the coaching industry, the
things that we can talk about.
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:Obviously it's natural and I think
that, the simple idea here is that,
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:you want to be able to be stable.
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:Most people do.
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:Like you said, some people might be
like, Hey, I'm more of the hobbyist and.
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:I just wanna do a few sessions
a week, and finding those five
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:or 10 clients is hard enough.
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:I don't need to worry about doing anymore.
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:But, sometimes we are, I wouldn't say
lucky enough, but sometimes we reach a
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:point and we're like, oh, I've arrived.
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:I've got 15 solid clients
per week, consistently.
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:They're buying my product.
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:Obviously I'm doing something right.
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:Now, what would be next for me?
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:Is there a next even for me?
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:And I
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:think that's something that is very,
like you said, it's very individual.
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:And I don't know if
there's a secret formula.
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:I think everybody wants to know
what's the secret formula to scaling?
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:And it's I don't know if there's
an actual secret sauce here.
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:Look at the,
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:look, if you guys could see
John's face right now, he's no.
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:John: No, I'm not deep,
deep in thought is all.
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:But I'm thinking about I, I'm
thinking about people I've worked
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:with who are thinking about scaling
and how much easier it tends to be.
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:I.
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:When you have most of this planned out
at the start if you actually create
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:the vision for what you want your
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:Angie: Mm-hmm.
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:John: to look like, how much time do
you want to be spending doing coaching?
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:How much time are you gonna be able
to realistically do your marketing and
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:your follow up and your discovery calls,
or who's gonna be helping you do that?
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:How do you want your business to look?
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:How many people do you want
helping you in that business?
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:Do you want to be speaking on stages?
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:Do you want to be creating books, courses?
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:These are all stuff.
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:Okay.
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:It can change.
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:This is the thing of
you're not writing it down.
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:It's like, all right,
it's carved in stone now.
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:It has to be that it's
adaptable based on you.
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:We have to remain adaptable to
our futures based on what kind
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:of comes up for us, you, because.
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:Everything can change.
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:We all know that, but it's so much
easier, I think, to know what you
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:are working towards and at least aim
for that and then adapt along the way
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:than to be figuring it out as you go,
which I think is what most of us do.
319
:Probably what I've done most of my
coaching career, but have made more
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:of a shift in later years to planning
ahead, working backwards, reverse
321
:engineering the outcomes that I want.
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:Angie: Oh, let me ask you though.
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:So this is what was popping.
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:Up up as you were saying that.
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:'cause as a, an experienced person, I'm
like going, yeah, that's exactly it.
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:But when I was like, starting
out, or, and when I say starting
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:out, I don't mean like day one.
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:even year three, four, and five,
I still didn't quite know and
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:things were starting to change.
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:I think the question though is,
the statement I think I wanna
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:make is, and partially a question
is, I think a lot of people, when
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:they begin with the end in mind.
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:It comes down to many times.
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:I'm not gonna say all the time, so
don't come at me, but it's about money.
335
:They think about, what do I want
and or need my income to be, gross?
336
:Income to be?
337
:And that's when they start to realize
oh my gosh, for me to actually hit that
338
:goal at the end of the year and I'm
making this up, I need to do 15 clients
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:per week consistently with no breaks.
340
:So they, and you have to account for that.
341
:You have to account for that.
342
:There's gonna be some downtime in that.
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:Perhaps you're not going to be able to
keep every spot filled consistently.
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:So you have to account for that.
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:So then you actually
need to do more, right?
346
:So
347
:again, I don't know.
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:I don't, I had not yet met the person who
said, I just wanna be able to do this.
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:It's their end is usually I
need or want to earn this, and
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:then they reverse engineer it.
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:So was that your experience or did
you do it differently than that?
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:Because that's what I did.
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:John: I prob probably very
similar to you really.
354
:But I can remember you coaching me on
this very topic and creating vision,
355
:encouraging me to create some vision
about what I wanted professionally.
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:I thought, yeah, it was great advice.
357
:I.
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:And you're saying do you want to be
the coach doing the coaching or do
359
:you want to be the coach who has other
people doing the coaching for you?
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:And I'm thinking, yeah,
that, that sounds good.
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:Actually.
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:I think I would like to be more the guy
who does the group stuff and the sort of.
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:The IP and all of that and
have coaches working with me.
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:I love that setup and certainly
that's something I'm gonna
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:continue to move towards.
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:But I don't think I'd really thought
about that until you suggested it
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:when we were having a conversation.
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:It's actually, yeah,
that's really appealing.
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:This is why it's so good for us as
coaches to have coaches, or at least have
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:Angie: It is.
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:John: talk to.
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:Yeah.
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:No, and so at the end of the
day, everything that we're saying
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:is, it's really, you know, there
has to be, I think now it's a
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:lot easier to have an awareness.
377
:Because again, you and I, back in the day,
we didn't have this whole social media and
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:all of these things.
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:We weren't able to observe other
people illustrating something
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:that we didn't know existed.
381
:We were like, oh, look at this.
382
:I told you my first experience with
an actual speaker person changed my
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:life, changed my whole life because.
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:You know there I was
listening to this person, PhD.
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:She was a psychiatrist and she got
up and she was doing the art of
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:sales or whatever she called it.
387
:I think that's what I call it.
388
:I shouldn't say that.
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:So she was doing something and
I'm sitting in the audience.
390
:I'm sitting next to the person
who's in charge of the education
391
:committee for this organization, and
I'm watching this woman give this
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:one hour amazing, applicable talk.
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:To a room full of salespeople.
394
:In a funny way.
395
:She injected humor.
396
:But listen, we took what she taught us
and I was teaching it at our offices,
397
:but the moment was I was looking at
her and I elbowed my friend who was
398
:the person in charge of the education
committee, and I said, I could do that.
399
:And she goes, if I told you
what we were paying her, you'd
400
:be like, I need to do that.
401
:And I go, really?
402
:What are you paying her?
403
:And she said to me.
404
:This was a long time ago too.
405
:This is not within the
last 10 years, by the way.
406
:So understand the numbers.
407
:$15,000 at the time plus travel.
408
:I'd never heard of her.
409
:I had heard of other
people like Tony Robbins.
410
:She wasn't that person, but she was known
in this industry, in this sales arena.
411
:And I thought, what?
412
:Like, I literally like.
413
:Looked at her in awe and I, 'cause
I didn't realize that people could
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:do speaking on smaller stages and
actually make a great living at it.
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:So you but now, people are like, you
could go onto any social media platform
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:and say, oh, look at what this person's
doing, or I really can relate to that, or.
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:So there's so much more out there
for you to choose from in terms of
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:how you want to deliver whatever
it is that you wanna deliver.
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:look at me, I'm feeling sorry for us.
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:We didn't have that.
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:John: Look I'm probably one
of the earliest innovators
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:of online group coaching.
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:Just in terms of being on board with it.
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:When it, when the only option was go
to webinar when there was no video.
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:You could have your slideshow,
but you couldn't, they couldn't
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:see you, you couldn't see them.
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:That's all there was.
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:And it was bloody expensive as well.
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:And and, newsletters
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:Angie: Coaching.
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:It was all in person.
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:All of
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:John: Right.
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:News newsletters were like
wads of paper or maybe a DVD
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:that would get posted to you.
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:Can we just aging ourselves here?
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:Angie: We're
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:John: This is like
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:when I was a young coach, it was totally
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:Angie: Oh, when I bought to
walk to school, 10 miles and
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:three feet of snow each way.
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:John: That kind of thing.
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:But yeah, you're right.
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:The workshops would be in person.
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:You, it was hard to do them
online and people didn't, people
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:weren't used to it as well.
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:Your talks as well had to be in person.
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:Everything had to be travel
or nearly all the coaching was
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:either telephone or in person.
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:Things have changed so much and it's a
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:Angie: They have yeah,
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:John: thank,
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:God 'cause it's so
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:Angie: hate ness.
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:We're sitting here going, you know what?
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:stop your whining.
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:You don't know what heart is.
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:Alright.
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:Sorry we're, you know, digressing.
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:John: But like the, these, it just
shows how things have changed over
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:time and in great ways for us.
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:The bigger challenge now I think is
potentially overwhelming ourselves
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:because there are so many options.
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:There are so many things to
do, and we don't know which to
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:always, which to go for first.
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:So I think one of the best advice, like
you're feeling like ready to scale,
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:maybe you are feeling a bit burnt out.
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:You want more time back for yourself.
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:You want more income, but you don't want
more clients, those kinds of things.
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:It is a good time to start maybe
talking to your coach or get in touch
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:with one of us to start talking about,
to start talking about how to move
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:forward and scale up your business from
here and do it in a way that isn't.
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:Going to overwhelm you and it's gonna
make sense for you too because it,
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:it is a much easier thing to do, but
it does require a level of focus.
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:And if things aren't foundationally secure
with your business right now, it probably
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:isn't the right time to scale up just yet.
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:Angie: Absolutely.
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:there is such a thing, and I'll maybe
share this in a different episode.
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:It's too much too soon, believe it or not.
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:Although everybody thinks it's so
easy to run a coaching business.
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:There is such a thing
as too much to stone.
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:Talk about that another time.
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:John: Oh, that's a great
episode to look forward to.
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:I think we're gonna, we
can wrap things up here.
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:I think we've covered all the essentials
about scaling up, but if you have
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:questions about it or if this is
on your mind get in touch with us.
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:We'll tell you in just a
moment how you can do that.
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:Just a quick message from me before
we close things off for today.
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:If you would like to get a free
summary of today's episode of all
490
:the things we discussed about scaling
your business, you can download
491
:that for free, no strings attached
from the show notes to this episode.
492
:So go and visit the show notes on
your podcast app and you can find
493
:the link to download from there.
494
:If any problems downloading,
reach out to myself or Angie and
495
:we will send the link to you.
