The Skills Every Coach Must Master
Mastering Key Coaching Skills: Listening, Reframing, and Building Rapport
Summary
In this conversation, Angie and John discuss various coaching skills and techniques. They touch on the importance of rituals and energy management, the skill of reframing, and the power of metaphors and stories in coaching. They emphasize the need for coaches to guide their clients rather than telling them what to do, and the importance of aligning values. They also invite listeners to share their coaching challenges and skills they want to develop.
Keywords
coaching skills, listening, presence, rapport, preparation, breaks, energy, coaching skills, rituals, energy management, reframing, metaphors, stories, guiding clients, aligning values
Takeaways
Listening is a crucial skill for coaches, as it allows them to be present and pick up on cues from clients.
Creating good rapport with clients is important for building trust and establishing a strong coaching relationship.
Preparation for coaching sessions, both in terms of knowing where the client left off and energetically preparing oneself, is essential for effective coaching.
Taking breaks between sessions helps coaches maintain focus and avoid distractions.
Coaches should strive to show up with an objective mindset, free from personal or work-related energy. Rituals and energy management are important for coaches to maintain focus and deliver their best in each session.
Reframing is a valuable skill that helps clients gain new perspectives and challenge their beliefs and stories.
Metaphors and stories can be powerful tools in coaching, helping clients make connections and understand concepts more deeply.
Coaches should guide their clients rather than telling them what to do, allowing them to find their own answers and solutions.
Aligning values with clients can enhance the coaching process and create a stronger connection.
Got a question for John & Angie? Leave us a voicemail at https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast It's free and if we like your message, we might feature you on the show.
00:00 Introduction and Opening Banter
01:04 Discussing Essential Coaching Skills
01:37 The Importance of Active Listening
08:03 Building Rapport with Clients
17:18 Preparing for Coaching Sessions
21:34 Maintaining Energy and Focus
28:23 Humor and Team Readiness
29:14 Importance of State Management
30:25 Personal Power and Emotional State
32:36 Handling Major Life Events as a Coach
36:32 Reframing as a Coaching Skill
42:19 The Power of Metaphors in Coaching
46:35 Encouraging Client Self-Discovery
48:30 Wrapping Up and Audience Engagement
Transcript
Angie,
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:Angie: John?
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:John: what would you say
is my best coaching skill?
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:Angie: Hmm, you need an answer right now.
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:John: Well, yes, that would be good.
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:Angie: Still thinking.
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:John: Oh, come on, it can't
be that hard to answer.
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:Angie: You know what?
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:Ask me again at the start
of the next episode.
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:John: Well, thanks a lot.
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:Let's start the show.
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:Angie: I'm ready.
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:John: Okay, last time we talked about
coaching traits, like what makes a good
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:coach, but we also know that there are
skills that you need to have as a coach.
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:So in this episode, we thought it would
be a really good idea to give a bit of
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:an overview about what the skills are
that you ideally need to have as a coach.
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:Now, we'll try and give
as many as possible.
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:We might not hit everything that's
out there and available for you.
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:But let's kick this off and Angie, what
do you think are some of the top skills or
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:most important skills a coach should have?
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:Angie: Well, I'm gonna go in with,
and sorry cuz I'm sure you're probably
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:thinking the same, but I'm gonna
start with that whole listening.
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:Listening is absolutely a skill.
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:It's a lost skill because
none of us do it, right?
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:So I definitely think being able to be
present and listening for cues, that's
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:huge.
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:John: Now, we have said before
that that was a good trait
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:for a coach as well, but as a
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:Angie: A little.
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:John: how do you become a good listener?
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:How do you become someone who
is good at being present with
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:clients, with other people?
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:Angie: You know, it's so funny that
you say that because I'm thinking
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:back to like, way back and I remember
that I'm that shiny object person.
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:I'm literally like, la
la la squirrel, right?
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:I just know that about myself.
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:So I literally had to set up my space to
have as little distraction as possible.
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:Literally, like shut the shades
make sure that there is no other
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:sound in the room, nothing else.
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:The ceiling fan is off anything that
could potentially be a distraction for
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:me was, and it would literally, it sounds
silly, but that was the first step.
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:Thing I had to do
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:John: It makes sense to me.
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:Do you feel like active listening
and that whole thing of that making
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:sure that you're going the yeses
and the ums and um, and nods in the
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:right places all that kind of stuff.
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:Do you feel that that's
an important part of this?
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:Angie: I'm gonna I'm gonna go with a soft.
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:Yes, I think you know I think it's a
little bit difficult because you know
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:be on the other side of it, right?
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:And that's something that I've had
to do is when I'm evaluating My
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:sessions at the end of the week and
saying hey one went really well.
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:What was not so great.
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:What can I improve?
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:I do it with you and I sometimes like if
I'm listening to one of our recordings and
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:you're like telling saying something I'm
like, hmm I'm like, ooh, that's a little
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:distracting, that's a little distracting.
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:So I think like it's a soft yes
because I want them to know that
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:I am listening because I know it
can be, it's a little intimidating
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:for the person on the other side.
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:To not know if you're there,
because we talked about this.
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:I don't do, if I can
avoid it, I don't do Zoom.
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:I don't do any, video coaching.
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:Everything I do is on the phone.
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:So yeah, so I have to make sure
that I'm actively listening.
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:What are you smiling about?
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:What?
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:John: no, I, I'm agreeing.
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:I am very much smiling
'cause I agree with this.
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:I think it's more, definitely more
relevant to make sure that your client
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:knows that your are listening when you
are on an audio-only coaching call.
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:Angie: That's
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:John: I think there's, you can
get away with it probably on video
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:calls or certainly in person.
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:but I would say that there is a real
skill to listening well to people
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:that I think mostly just needs to be
developed and practiced in sessions.
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:, not super easy to land, but there is a
really awesome book I read a while back
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:by a lady called Nancy Klein, and it's
called Time to Think, really lovely book.
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:And it's all about giving people the
space, holding the space for them without
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:trying to lead them or push them to the
next question, but actually just giving
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:them space to think about what they want
to answer, certainly give them some, some
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:material to chew on and to think about.
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:, but then actually just holding that space
for them and not active listening, not
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:making any noise, really just waiting for
them to answer, not to make it an awkward
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:silence, but really just to put them in a
position where they can speak and answer.
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:I thought it was really quite
lovely as a book, I'd highly
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:recommend it to people, but.
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:For me, it really emphasized one of the
aspects of coaching that we don't need to
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:do that in all of our coaching sessions,
but we should be able to do that where
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:it's relevant with a client to say,
I'm just going to hold space for you to
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:have some time to think about this and
take your time be okay with the silence.
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:Angie: agree.
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:I think that easily, and that's a great
segue, because I think as coaches.
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:Like, when I first became a coach,
I know that I had moments of feeling
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:like I needed to fill the space.
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:And as a result of that, I would then
start talking or asking the next follow
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:up question or reframing the question
and learning to give it a period of time
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:for them, for a client to chew on it.
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:It's so important because, my mind goes
at 900 miles an hour as we all know.
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:And that's not always great, right?
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:Because I tend to go to the end and
work my way back and, my coach will tell
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:you it takes me a minute to find my way
and not everybody's built like that.
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:So learning how to hold the space
and allow somebody to process,
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:obviously finding the balance though,
because sometimes they're just.
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:Hmm.
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:Um, well, and if I, and if I feel
like too much time has passed, I
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:might say, I might follow up with,
how does that question sound?
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:Or do you need me to re ask the question
in a different way, reframe the question?
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:But again, I know people
will say how long?
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:I think you have to read the room.
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:And see get to know that, that client
and if it is taking like a full
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:60 seconds, you probably need to
come back in right before that and
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:say, Hey, hello, he's still there.
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:Is this thing on that kind of a saying,
but I, I'm poking a little bit of fun, but
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:I do think it's really important to hold
that space and allow them time to process.
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:John: I think that's part of the
being present That's where you really
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:tune in to what's going on with them
Emotionally and energetically you have a
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:sense of are they still really thinking
about this or are they tuning out?
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:Or is their mind suddenly washed away to
what they need to buy at the supermarket
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:or something like that You know, it's
like you do pick up on these things even
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:if you don't see them You personally,
if you're just on an audio call, you
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:can still pick up and sense these
things and really need to be tuned in.
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:I think that there's a an element
that comes with this of good coaching
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:skills, certainly important initially.
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:Or can be important initially
is the ability to create good
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:rapport with your client.
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:Angie: I agree.
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:I agree.
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:I think it's important to do that.
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:But I think.
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:Of course, we need to have good rapport,
otherwise the trust doesn't get built.
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:We need that.
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:But I think how we do
it is really important.
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:I was actually, before you said that, I
was thinking, stay away from the chitchat.
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:In the very beginning, Hey, how are you?
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:How's the kids?
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:How's this?
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:And Oh, the weather and
that, that, that, that.
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:And before you know it, seven,
eight minutes is gone on chitchat.
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:I've observed it when I'm training
coaches, I've watched coaches and it,
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:and if you're not looking at the time,
you don't really recognize it doesn't
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:seem like, Oh, this is taking too long.
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:And I know that a lot of people
do that to build rapport, right?
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:Let me relate to you as a human and
talk about, and I'm not saying that.
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:If you know something is going on,
let's just say I don't know, somebody
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:was having surgery, a spouse or a child
or whatever, something that you don't
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:come in and say, Hey, how is that going?
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:Because that shows care and empathy and
all the things, and that's important,
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:but I just, I've watched it over and over
that many coaches when they're trying
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:to build rapport, they waste up to 10
minutes on smell talk and chit chat.
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:Not a good look.
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:John: I will nearly always tend to
start a session with a very quick how
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:things been going since we last spoke.
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:And that's really what
I'm going to ask them.
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:Certain clients in the past, I have
there's been a need to sometimes say,
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:Is there anything you need, anything
you want to need to get off your mind
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:before we get into today's session?
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:But you generally know
who you need to do it.
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:You have a sense of who you need to
do that with in those situations.
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:Angie: Yeah,
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:John: I might have a slightly
different take on this.
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:I've talked before about doing NLP
trainings and they teach you rapport
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:skills and NLP training, which is great.
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:It's good to have them.
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:However, rapport is generally assumed.
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:I'm going to take it this way.
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:Like it's generally assumed
it's something we naturally do.
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:If you don't have good natural rapport
with a client who you're working with,
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:it might actually be a sign that.
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:They're not a good client
for you to work with.
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:So do you, so do you, so do you
really want to be pulling out
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:those rapport skills where you
can get the rapport with them?
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:You have to, I think you have to
make a judgment call with that.
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:I am very much of the mind of if I
don't have a natural rapport with
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:the client, I just feel like I'm
always going to have to be working
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:hard at keeping rapport with them.
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:Angie: I, let's see.
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:I agree and disagree.
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:And I agree because it, what
you're saying is absolutely true.
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:I'm thinking about my own
experiences and this is interesting.
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:Sometimes people come
into coaching, right?
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:They do it willingly.
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:They hire you.
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:They know they, we talk about expectations
and things like that before we actually
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:start The program, but some people aren't
as ready as they believe that they are.
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:So if I, I don't judge it by sessions
one or two, but if I get to session
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:three and I'm feeling hesitancy or
anything like this, and if I feel
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:like there's hesitation or if it just
feels off, right, I will literally
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:say, let's let, let's take a pause.
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:And I will ask them I will re
evaluate with them the necessity
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:at this time for coaching.
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:And if they are like, yeah, yeah,
yeah, affirming that this is what they
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:want, And I have to then decide is
there a breakthrough I need to have?
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:Because sometimes it's a test and
an unintentional test by the client
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:they're just not willing, extracting,
but it's almost like once you pop
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:the top and it starts to flow and
you as a coach, you need to be able
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:to define that and differentiate.
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:So we don't want you like tossing people
to the side and saying, Hey, you know,
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:this is just not going to be a good fit.
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:I think there are some steps that we can
and need to take in order to decide that.
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:but I think,
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:John: I do agree.
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:Angie: well, do you think so?
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:I think I made a statement and this is
just, A personal assessment of mine do
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:you think again, one may not be the space
two is still a little bit of a warm up,
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:you know, what date three means, right?
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:But by number three, we should
have a real, there should be at
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:least some traction and, you know,
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:John: So yeah, that's why I say with that,
if I feel that there's no rapport with a
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:client, it's a sign that it might be hard
to work with, but I'm probably not going
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:to make that decision completely in the
very first session unless it's really bad.
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:and It's just like, Oh no this is,
this is going to be, this is awkward.
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:This is horrible.
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:This isn't going to work.
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:And I may not want it to.
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:And that's rare, but you know, it's
really just that initial sense is that,
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:all right, this could be challenging.
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:Let's see what comes.
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:But there's another aspect to it where
I think as a coach, it's not always
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:good to have too much rapport anyway.
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:I think you need enough rapport to get
some, as you said, get some traction,
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:get some flow into the session, but you
really don't want to be super in rapport.
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:To a level where perhaps you and I might
be in rapport because we talk so much and
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:we get on so well, like we have really
good rapport, that with that could make
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:it challenging, if one of us were in
the client position and the other with
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:the coach, he could because there's a,
the different level of closeness there.
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:Or more that there's not the level
of detachment that is ideal for being
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:able to keep a sort of helicopter view
and a level of detachment in coaching.
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:So the people who are going too
much into rapport may also be the
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:kinds of people who are being too
much of a friend with their clients
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:rather than a coach with them.
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:Angie: Likeability is important.
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:But I have said to clients
in the beginning, right?
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:You don't really have to like me
as the person because what I do
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:as Angie, when I'm not a coach is
really none of anybody's business.
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:Sounds really kind of bad.
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:Crappy to say that, but who I am and
what I do is really none of anybody's
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:business to some degree, right?
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:Who I am as a coach is what you need to
focus on because I do have people that
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:will come into those first sessions
and they're bubbly or outgoing and they
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:want to just know they're genuinely
just curious because they don't even
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:understand what the relationship is.
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:Of a coach and a client
really is supposed to be.
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:So I laid all of this out in that
initial, like before we get into
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:session one, if they say, yeah,
I think that I want to do this.
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:I say, okay, let's set
up some expectations.
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:Not your mama and I'm not your best
friend, but I am here as, because
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:the trust, the rapport is where
that trust is starts to build,
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:I think.
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:So you need to make sure you're laying
the groundwork to establish that trust.
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:So that, people are, I've, I'm sure you
and I can agree to this and I've said
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:this so many times, I am conversations
with clients that they would not
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:ever, or have not ever had with the
most important people in their lives,
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:spouse, family, friends, whomever, I
make sure that I'm not giving somebody
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:the 500 cup of coffee, so to speak.
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:I want to do work with them and the
more trust that I am able to establish,
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:the more I just notice this, the
better the outcomes are for them.
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:The discovery is just so
much more impactful for them.
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:So there's a reason for that.
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:John: That's part of
where rapport comes in.
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:Yeah.
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:Angie: Mm hmm.
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:Yeah.
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:John: are a number of things that help
to establish trust and part of that I
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:think is displaying a level of competence.
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:And again, there's not so much, I
think that's more traits than skills.
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:, But I do think there are things,
there are ways you can learn
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:how to build trust with people.
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:Trust building is a skill.
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:Trust itself is a trait, I guess.
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:Angie: No, I agree.
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:I definitely agree.
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:And it's such a fine line
between skill set and traits.
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:And a lot of them
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:John: yeah.
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:And a lot of them do overlap.
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:I think another really important and
then I'm going to call this a skill.
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:And I think that some people might
say that's just something that you do.
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:I'm going to call it a skill is
to prepare for your sessions.
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:That it's definitely a competency,
sometimes you might it's easy when you
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:have one or two clients, but when you
have 15 or 20 clients a week, and I wish
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:that for all of you, if that's what you
aspire to, rock on with your bad solves.
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:I hope that's what you get,
but understand I've done that.
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:I've done 30.
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:And it took me time to figure
out my sweet spot, okay?
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:My ideal is probably 23 a week is what
I can handle mentally, emotionally,
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:all the things with my energy.
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:But I do think that preparation.
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:There should be some components.
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:Don't just go into read
like old notes and things.
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:Like when you get up to the point where
you have, several clients, it does become
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:a little bit more challenging to keep
some of the details in order, right?
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:A client should not have to come
into a session and say to you,
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:well, don't you remember that
Angie, we said that last time.
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:That is not something you want.
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:What you actually want is several
sessions later, being able to
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:say to somebody, Hey, John, don't
remember when you said to me, bup.
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:How does that apply here?
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:When you start to stitch sessions and
stories and things together for them,
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:they are absolutely mesmerized by that.
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:Because then they go, she really gets me.
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:She is listening and she hears me.
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:That is awesome.
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:That is something that I feel
like is invaluable as a coach.
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:And preparation is the key to that.
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:Know your people.
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:Know your clients.
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:Learn more at www.
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:plastics car.
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:com Don't just do a session, call
it done, send a couple of notes,
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:and say, okay, next, who's next?
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:That's not a good look.
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:John: no, I a hundred percent agree
with you And keeping track of where your
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:clients are is something that gets I guess
it's something that gets easier over time
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:anyway, especially if you don't if you
only have a handful of private clients.
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:But it does get easier.
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:Some things will stick in your
brain more than others as well.
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:when you have, if you just have
a handful of plans, it can be
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:quite easy to keep on top of it.
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:And when you're experienced at doing
that, it gets a bit easier anyway.
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:It's kind of like you start keeping
mental tabs open with your clients as
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:to come back and check in with stuff.
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:But those tabs will eventually get closed.
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:It's now the, what they call the
Zeigarnik effect, if you've ever
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:heard of that, which is like,
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:it was a psychologist called Bluma
Zeigarnik and she'd done this study
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:into how waiters in restaurants
would remember these massive
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:orders without writing stuff down.
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:And she was amazed by that, but what she.
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:Angie: by that, by the way.
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:John: Yeah, it's incredible, right?
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:But what she also was once the order
was delivered, if she asked them
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:what people had ordered, it was
gone because they only kept the tab
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:open for as long as they needed it.
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:So this has been studied and
called the Zeigarnik effect.
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:Like we can keep these mental tabs
open for as long as we need them.
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:And then they get closed again.
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:So it's don't be surprised if after
you're no longer working with that
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:client, so it wasn't there some
important stuff we're working on
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:that might not come back to you.
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:It's cause the mental tabs are closed.
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:But this is part of the
way our brains work.
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:We sometimes will keep things
open when we know we need to refer
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:to them or come back to them.
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:But why not also give yourself that
helping hand of keeping good notes.
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:I've always found it's good to
prepare for your sessions, not just
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:to know where you've left off, what
you might want to check in on with
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:your clients, but also to prepare
yourself emotionally, be energetically
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:prepared for your sessions as well.
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:Be intentional before you even get
into your sessions for the outcomes
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:that you want to help your clients
create and then make some good
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:notes afterwards, like good notes.
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:For you and for them after your
session is also part of your
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:preparation for your next session.
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:And I think, yes.
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:All of that.
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:It's also very true.
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:It's not just preparation for them.
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:One of the things that I had to do
and it was a learn as I go situation.
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:Is that I had to take breaks in
between sessions a lot of people
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:what they try to do Is just you
know, some I know some coaches that
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:do Back to back to back sessions.
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:I don't know.
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:I have to pee.
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:Sorry.
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:Need the restroom
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:John: like the idea of it,
but no, I need breaks as well.
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:Not
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:Angie: think about that though,
because what happens is if you really
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:think about it, if you all of a
sudden I drink a ton of water, right?
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:I live in the desert
and I need those breaks.
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:I need them because I need to
just go refresh and I don't
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:want, I've had it happen.
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:Obviously that's why it's coming up,
but I don't want to be sitting in a
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:session with somebody and being like,
Oh my God, I don't have 15 minutes.
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:I'm, now I'm distracted.
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:It's just really good business and
, proper functionality of a session.
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:You don't want to be distracted.
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:That's the first thing.
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:The second thing is we have to keep an eye
on our energy and our ability to show up.
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:Without, and this is something that
I do, I learned this Brendan Burchard
384
:is, obviously everybody knows, well,
you don't, you should, like he's coach
385
:and he's an, he's amazing, I do love
him, and one of his teachings is called
386
:a release meditation technique, and I
am, I'm going to say this flat out, I'm
387
:not one of those people that's all oh,
I'm going to go meditate there's things
388
:that I do that aren't like, I'm not
sitting there like, Oh, that's not me.
389
:I will go sit in nature and quiet
and that's meditation for me.
390
:I do those things.
391
:But what I noticed is if you go to the
finest restaurants, what they do is in
392
:between each portion of the meal, right?
393
:They will come with like sherbet.
394
:And the reason they gave me
the sherbet, it's like lemon or
395
:something, is to cleanse your palate.
396
:Right.
397
:So I call it the cleansing of my emotional
palate because I can't, I don't want to
398
:bring the energy from my house, right?
399
:My personal self, or I don't want to bring
my energy from my workday home, right?
400
:So and in between, I don't
want to bring good or bad.
401
:I want to show up as organically
ready for a session as possible.
402
:So that I am receiving information
objectively, that's what I want.
403
:So in between coming into the door,
right now I work from home, right?
404
:So when I close my office door I
sit down and I do this meditation.
405
:It's about two, two and a half minutes.
406
:And I do it at the end of the day.
407
:And I literally do it in between Each
of my sessions, go do my thing, use the
408
:restroom, get my water, eat lunch, keep
myself, do a couple of jumping jacks,
409
:like whatever it is I have to do to keep
myself energized because I'm sitting
410
:at my desk all day I will do this right
before I get into the next session.
411
:And I love it because again, for
somebody like me, who has the attention
412
:span of a flea, I definitely love it.
413
:We'll love doing this because I am
able to keep that energy in its place.
414
:It's really, did you, are you
familiar with it or no, John?
415
:Yeah.
416
:John: but I am familiar with the idea of
having some sort of ritualistic practices.
417
:And I certainly used to do that a lot
more than I probably do now, because
418
:part of those for me were about setting
my energetic state and and also sort of
419
:clearing, clearing the palate as you were
after the meal, after the coaching session
420
:I found that that stuff was important.
421
:I didn't want to carry over anything
from one coaching session to the next.
422
:I also didn't want to carry anything but.
423
:As coaches, we tend to be quite
an empathic people, and so we can
424
:easily pick up on other people's
emotional states, and sometimes we
425
:can carry that with us, especially
if they're in a pretty bad place.
426
:whatever's going on with that, we
can end up taking that with us.
427
:So it's really important.
428
:And I think a coach I used to learn from
using, I called it kind of a psychic
429
:cleansing, like not talking about
psychics, like crystal balls and stuff,
430
:but psychic from more of the sort of
mental perspective of cleanse your psyche,
431
:cleanse your psyche, shake stuff off.
432
:writing notes became that for me
and I writing notes after a session
433
:became my palate cleanser, part
of the ritual and everything just
434
:ended up getting tied up into that.
435
:So I didn't really find that I had to
do much more after a session as I, once
436
:I'd done my notes, it was closed off.
437
:And that became the ritual for me.
438
:The more the opening ritual, which
was like intention setting and stuff
439
:like that just became more automatic.
440
:So I don't, I think it probably
still happens on an unconscious
441
:level, if that makes sense.
442
:Angie: No, it definitely does.
443
:And honestly, those are skills.
444
:Even though it's, these are
like lists of things that we do,
445
:ritualistic as you refer to them.
446
:I think that they're absolutely necessary.
447
:And I, again, I think a lot of
the people listening, if they're
448
:not doing, Many, they might say,
well, I'm only doing a few a week.
449
:I would still say practice it
anyway, no matter how many you have.
450
:I've even made the joke of having some
type of practice that you incorporate
451
:into your life so that you are present.
452
:This is where that presence comes in.
453
:If I just had an interaction with
somebody that I live with, anybody in
454
:my family, good or bad, and I come into
a session, there's no possibility that
455
:that energy isn't showing up somehow,
some way, whether you want to admit
456
:it or realize it or recognize it.
457
:And it doesn't mean that
you're not going to deliver.
458
:Of good fashion, but I hold myself
to a pretty high standard and so to
459
:my clients as a result, and I need
to make sure that I am as on the
460
:money as I can possibly be right.
461
:If I want to command a certain amount of.
462
:of income or program charge,
like per session kind of a thing.
463
:I need to do everything in my power.
464
:So this is funny.
465
:I had surgery, I don't know, 15 years
ago on my neck, see, and and my throat.
466
:And I was so nervous.
467
:I mean, they were like, we're going to
put a pretty big slice into your neck.
468
:And I just had this like
vision of my head flopping.
469
:I'm sorry.
470
:It's true.
471
:I really did any doubt.
472
:So when I walked into the OR and there
were 20 people in that room and I was
473
:like, what are you all doing here?
474
:And they're like, Oh, I'm
doing this and this and this.
475
:And I was like, wow, this
is a pretty big surgery.
476
:Let me just say this.
477
:Right.
478
:It's not three people.
479
:And I go,
480
:John: were they're just there to catch
your head in case it fell off, right?
481
:Angie: it's not even funny.
482
:I was petrified.
483
:I was petrified.
484
:But that's funny.
485
:Where's the basket?
486
:That would have been funny if they
did that as a joke, like right
487
:at the base of the the gurney Oh.
488
:What's that for?
489
:Well, in case we overdo it, I think.
490
:Oh, gosh.
491
:Anyhow, imagine how I felt.
492
:But anyway, and I, you know what
I said to everybody, I go, all
493
:right, I just have one question.
494
:Everybody in a good mood?
495
:Nobody, everybody getting
up sleep last night?
496
:Anybody have an argument with a
spouse or a loved one this morning?
497
:Because if you did and
are not, you need to go.
498
:Hey, go find your replacement.
499
:I want everybody to be spry and ready
to go, I actually had another visual
500
:of like baseball glove, like somebody
sitting there with a basket in it.
501
:Okay.
502
:Anyway, But we're going we're
going all over here, but you know
503
:what i'm talking about, right?
504
:Like it really was Important to me.
505
:This is my point.
506
:It was very important to me To have,
these people that I was putting so
507
:much trust in to be ready, just in case
I didn't want anybody sitting there
508
:with bleary eyes and, cutting things
they're not supposed to be cutting.
509
:So I know it's, we're not as extreme
and maybe we're not as important,
510
:but I think we are to people.
511
:I think that they rely on us.
512
:To really help them, right?
513
:It's not just about what
services do I provide.
514
:It's about them.
515
:Think about their perspective
and the trust level.
516
:It's kind of what I was just getting to
with my story about my head falling off,
517
:John: It relates to state management.
518
:Yeah.
519
:Angie: Yeah,
520
:John: The thing that I'm not a big
Tony Robbins fan, this, he has good
521
:Angie: that?
522
:apologizing in advance.
523
:John: I'm not a fan.
524
:I'm sorry.
525
:Yeah, I'm not saying he's not good at
what he does and all that kind of stuff.
526
:Just not, it's not for me.
527
:Angie: Where's the damn disclaimer,
you know, like when you're about
528
:to watch a show and it says the
opinions of the blah pity blah are
529
:not Necessarily those of the network.
530
:I'm just
531
:John: John's opinions are not necessarily
those of Angie's or other coaches.
532
:Yeah, but yeah however he does
talk about personal power and when
533
:he's talking about personal power,
he's talking about emotional state
534
:management and it's one of the hardest
things to do to be able to try.
535
:I was having such a struggle with
this myself on Monday that there was
536
:just coming back from vacation time,
there's been a lot of stuff going on
537
:and couldn't get my head in the game
and as I was trying to push through
538
:and work, work on my state management.
539
:All it was doing was giving me a headache.
540
:That wasn't good.
541
:That wasn't good.
542
:And then yesterday I'm on a group
call with a bunch of clients.
543
:And and this was coming up for them.
544
:It was like there was an issue, one
of them trying to get some stuff
545
:done and falling into old habits.
546
:So really what's going on here is a lot
to do with state management as well.
547
:Of like, how do you want to be,
how do you want to be showing
548
:up and experiencing your day?
549
:Is it like there's this
going on and that going on.
550
:And so I feel like this, or is it the
there's this going on and that going
551
:on, however, I'm choosing to feel like
this and show up like this, because
552
:it seems weird to other people around.
553
:If there's shit going on in your life or
in the world and you're, Oh, I'm happy.
554
:I couldn't be happier.
555
:Life is wonderful.
556
:People will think you're weird.
557
:That's the reality of it.
558
:And yet.
559
:Those kinds of peak states are
so critical for performance, for
560
:our performance, for being able
to show up and do a good job.
561
:So what you say raises a
really, really good point.
562
:If you've got crap going on in your life
and you can't box that up for a while and
563
:step into who you need to be and manage
your own emotional state that way, then
564
:you're not going to be able to operate at
any kind of anything close to peak levels.
565
:And so if you know, you
can't do that, like today.
566
:Monday for me, if you'd want me to
wanted me to do this call on Monday, I'd
567
:have been like, no, my, my head's not
in the game and can't it there today.
568
:But yesterday, today, Yeah.
569
:great.
570
:State management is hard work, but you do
have to be intentional about the states
571
:that you want and need to be in that
work for you, that are right for you.
572
:Yeah.
573
:Angie: and something I want to say
and I don't think this is necessarily
574
:a skill but you're You know, circling
the drain on it, and I want to bring
575
:it up is if you've had as a coach, a
major life event that you are not able
576
:to Okay, because we're not, we, I don't
believe in fake it till you make it.
577
:I just don't.
578
:So, because again, it'll show up in
places, things will show up in places
579
:that you don't even recognize, and
you don't know what will trigger you.
580
:So my, my thought is that, and I, and
here's the thing, workaholic, hero, let me
581
:do the things had a death in the family,
and said I'm still going to push through.
582
:There is no honor in that because
if you think that you're just
583
:like, I'm going to be fine.
584
:I can push through.
585
:No you're full of it and you're
deceiving yourself and therefore
586
:deceiving your client as well.
587
:So you really, it's not whether
you can push through or not.
588
:I just feel like there are
times when we need to say to
589
:ourselves, today's not the day.
590
:I can't do this today.
591
:I know they're relying on me,
but part of my obligation to them
592
:is to give them my very best.
593
:And I know with certainty under the
circumstances, I'm a good enough coach.
594
:I could probably just fake my way
through it, but that's not fair.
595
:So I'm going to be honest and
say, Hey, I did have a death in
596
:the family and I will, we'll be
rescheduling like just honor yourself.
597
:I knew somebody who I had a coach friend.
598
:And I have a coach friend.
599
:Who had surgery on a Thursday, and it
was pretty major, I wouldn't say it was
600
:open heart, but it was definitely like,
discomfort and what not, and they were,
601
:they didn't cancel any of their sessions
for Friday, and I thought, why, what?
602
:So although it's not a skill set, maybe
there are just some parameters that
603
:we need to set for ourselves to honor
ourselves when it's necessary, right?
604
:I don't let, if a client
says, Oh, I need to cancel.
605
:I asked them why I absolutely asked
them why, because I've experienced
606
:situations where when the work gets
tough, there's an avoidance and then
607
:they start making up stories and excuses.
608
:So I do check in on that.
609
:And if I am going to reschedule something,
I will give them a reason why, you
610
:know, unless it's something like, really
none of their business, like, Hey,
611
:I'm having surgery or, I have a death
in the family, something like that.
612
:I will be honest because I don't want
them to think I'm just rescheduled.
613
:We don't want them to know
that there's validity to it.
614
:But I just see a, I've seen several
people thinking they were doing
615
:the best thing for their clients.
616
:And it really is not, so I
don't know, it's not a skill,
617
:John: not.
618
:Angie: rule of thumb, maybe.
619
:John: Yeah no.
620
:Isn't that weird?
621
:I mean, there's so much that
relates to burnout culture.
622
:Maybe we, maybe it would be
good to talk about that in
623
:some point in the future, but.
624
:How much we need to hustle or how much
there's this idea of honour or success
625
:is about pushing yourself beyond your
limits and it's like, well, not always.
626
:Sometimes success is about challenging
yourself and pushing past your
627
:limits, but also some self care
that we don't actually need to
628
:become martyrs to what we're doing.
629
:Angie: There is a practice to, you
know what, practicing what you preach.
630
:Not that we preach, but just using
the saying, you, it's, if, I've
631
:actually had people that are super
sick, I've had clients that are coming
632
:on With COVID and they're coughing
every three seconds and 10 minutes
633
:in I'm like, we're done for today.
634
:You need to go take care of you.
635
:There is no, obviously
this is not going to count
636
:John: I'm the same.
637
:Yeah what are you going to,
what are you going to do?
638
:What can you possibly get done this week
when you actually just need to recuperate?
639
:Yeah, I'd be exactly
the same in the session.
640
:I want to pivot a bit though.
641
:And talk about something that is
unambiguously a skill, which is
642
:reframing a coaching skill, because I
think maybe something like 90 percent
643
:or more of coaching is reframing
and it's a really important skill.
644
:What what do you understand and
practice by reframing, with reframing?
645
:Angie: I think it's just
more of a pattern interrupt.
646
:If you think about it, right
beliefs, stories, and the things
647
:that come along with that.
648
:So reframing, I, I think
there's multitudes of ways
649
:to use that in coaching.
650
:So I can reframe a question
to help bring light to an
651
:alternative perspective, right?
652
:I do a lot of what is actually
one of my things that I actually
653
:have a talk in a workshop on it.
654
:It's the what if shift, right?
655
:So it's just being able to offer
up That alternative perspective,
656
:perception, because why are we here?
657
:Why do people come to coaching?
658
:Usually it's for beliefs and
stories and how that translate
659
:and translates into everyday life.
660
:John: Yeah.
661
:I take the, very much the perspective
of we are meaning making machines
662
:and we're always looking to make
meanings, but sometimes the meanings
663
:that We make are more based on
negative opinions and experiences in
664
:our lives of ourselves than reality
or whatever we choose to be reality.
665
:We have the ability to, to.
666
:essentially have the same experience.
667
:Like we could both go to, I'm trying
to think of a good example here.
668
:We could both go to Dollywood.
669
:Yeah.
670
:start some, I only said that because
it's somewhere that I'd love to go.
671
:We could both go to Dollywood and and
do exactly, I don't know what the rides
672
:are at Dollywood, but we could both look
at some of Dolly's old wigs and outfits
673
:and maybe, I don't know, do a country
karaoke session and stuff like that.
674
:And kind of whatever else is there.
675
:I don't know.
676
:I really want to go.
677
:And we could both do exactly the same
experience and we might come out at
678
:the end of the day and you've loved it
and I've hated it that could happen.
679
:So, so what's, so what's different there?
680
:Just the perspective, just the attitude
maybe that we've got in there with
681
:all experience that we're carrying
with us or opinions of ourselves or
682
:judgments that we're making at the time.
683
:That having the same experience
does not necessarily lead to the
684
:same outcome does not necessarily
lead to the same perspective.
685
:And so I really say reframing is that
we can always find new meanings in the
686
:judgments or decisions that we've already
made about our lives and our experience.
687
:And that to big part of, that's big of I
688
:find.
689
:Yeah, that's what I say.
690
:So much of reframing is just, is coaching.
691
:It's like a huge part of
the coaching equation.
692
:creating, creating new decisions, creating
new stories in your life, and some, to
693
:some degree, rewriting your story and
taking lessons from negative experiences
694
:in your past into positive lessons
instead, rather than negative lessons.
695
:So you take something good away from
696
:Angie: yeah, no, but I think the
first thing that we have to do and
697
:you touched on it is I can't tell
you that, you should love Dollywood.
698
:What do you mean you didn't love it?
699
:Some things are very, are black and white.
700
:Well, I didn't love this.
701
:It was too hot.
702
:And that's very your thing.
703
:But I think when I'm trying
to check in on somebody's.
704
:Specific perception of something.
705
:One of the questions I
will ask them is that true?
706
:Or I'll say on a scale of
one to 10, how true is that?
707
:And they give me like it's eight and I go
further and say, okay cause it's not that
708
:I'm trying to disprove anything I'm trying
to get, first of all, I'm trying to get a
709
:perspective of where they're actually at.
710
:And then, and once I do that, then
I can, work toward an alternative,
711
:but I have to understand what they
really perceive and to what level.
712
:So if they say, Oh yeah,
it's a level eight.
713
:I believe that, I'm not worthy of love.
714
:So define that.
715
:Like, how do you know
you're a level eight?
716
:What does that look like?
717
:And I make them go through that.
718
:It's very uncomfortable because honestly.
719
:It's not true, right?
720
:I'm not lovable.
721
:Okay.
722
:Well show me that how true is that?
723
:How do you know?
724
:Now obviously, you know if they had
a parent that was like you're not
725
:lovable their whole lives That's why
they believe that and that's not me.
726
:That's therapy.
727
:But you know But what I do is I
try to quantify it to some degree
728
:So that they can have this.
729
:Oh wait one to ten Oh, well, maybe
only three, and that's good for them.
730
:Let's say, okay, well, then tell
me the ways that you are lovable.
731
:What's lovable about you, right?
732
:Just without saying, well, I
want you to think differently.
733
:So let me ask you this.
734
:I just asked them.
735
:So I think that's a big piece of
it is quantifying it for them.
736
:I use a lot of 1 to 10.
737
:In my coaching and I know there
are some people that when they
738
:hear it, they go, Oh, really?
739
:Like one to 10, how much do you love
me on a scale of one to 10, 35 baby.
740
:But just to help give a perspective
to both the client and the coach, yeah.
741
:There's that.
742
:John: think another thing that I
find very much a skill and I've met
743
:something I try to be better at and
I've met some people who are amazingly
744
:good at this is the skill of metaphor.
745
:Angie: Yeah.
746
:John: metaphor and story in directing
coaching and it's sometimes hard to
747
:come up with stuff on the spot but
there are, certainly there are some
748
:sort of standard or regular metaphors
that we can often find ourselves
749
:using on what we refer to quite often.
750
:But the ability to actually come up with
a whole metaphor situation can actually
751
:be, you can end up being an intervention
if you're especially good at it.
752
:I wouldn't say I'm quite at that level
when it comes to metaphor, but it
753
:is a really powerful coaching skill.
754
:um
755
:that that I would encourage all
coaches to, to get better Yeah.
756
:Angie: Because it gives that visual kind
of, there's one that I use pretty often.
757
:And it's a go to for me, for people who
are stuck, right, and they just keep
758
:coming back to the same, and they're
like, I just don't know why, and I
759
:go, so let me ask you do you drive?
760
:Yes.
761
:You've driven a car?
762
:Yes.
763
:Did you ever hit a detour?
764
:Yes.
765
:Oh.
766
:So, did you turn off the car and sit
there and wait for the detour to end?
767
:And I'm like, well, no.
768
:Well, what did you do?
769
:I followed the signs, if there were.
770
:Did you ever come across
one that didn't have signs?
771
:I see it all the time here
in Arizona, by the way.
772
:And you just kind of figure it out.
773
:And you make a dozen wrong turns,
and we're like the, the cul de sac
774
:capital of probably the United States.
775
:So, it takes a lot of cul de sac and
turning around, but the point that
776
:you're making is keep going, because
you're You might trip and fall or go the
777
:wrong way to get to your destination,
but eventually you will get there.
778
:If you sit there and do nothing, then
you're going to guarantee that you're
779
:going to sit there and do nothing.
780
:Nothing's going to change.
781
:That is one that I use and it always
comes back because I say to them,
782
:you will now remember this for the
rest of your life because I said so.
783
:When you
784
:John: Yeah.
785
:I often, I think one of the ones
I use most commonly is the sort of
786
:parable of the Chinese farmer, the
one where it's like some good things
787
:happens about their neighbors come
around and say, Oh, that's good.
788
:Or what lucky man he says, we'll see.
789
:And then something.
790
:Seemingly bad happens or how unlucky
and how unfortunate he says we'll
791
:see every answer is we'll see because
something else follows on from that
792
:that determines like the thing that
seemed unlucky before actually was good.
793
:And the thing that seemed good
before ends up being unlucky.
794
:You just don't know.
795
:And so, so I want people to get out of
that sort of thing of, Oh, this is good.
796
:This is bad.
797
:Or because it's it's not
what I want in the moment.
798
:No, you don't know.
799
:So this is the like,
well, this is interesting.
800
:It doesn't completely change everything,
but it's a different perspective.
801
:Well, this isn't just bad.
802
:It's just interesting.
803
:It's like well, there's
things to figure out here.
804
:And you don't know ultimately whether
the things that are happening in
805
:your life are going to be good or
bad, whether they're going to work
806
:for your better interests or not.
807
:So I use that one a lot.
808
:Metaphors certainly in stories
can be really powerful.
809
:It's like, there can be whole
interventions in themselves.
810
:Metaphors in more commonly are really
just make it helping your clients to make
811
:the connections between things as well.
812
:So when you are very often use
things, well, it's a bit like this,
813
:that's a metaphor and it helps them
to understand it is a bit like a
814
:no, a stopped clock that's I know
it's at least right twice a day,
815
:Angie: Yeah.
816
:John: you know, those, know,
817
:Angie: is.
818
:John: those,
819
:Angie: Haven't heard that in a minute.
820
:Uh.
821
:John: those kinds of things that can
help people to make mental connections.
822
:Food connections can be pretty
good for that, because we all
823
:know commonly have and like food.
824
:There's so many different things to
choose from, but your job as a coach
825
:is to be the guide and is to help them,
help lead them to the connections that
826
:they need to make and help get them
to the understanding they want to get.
827
:So sometimes just saying something
directly can sound a bit too clinical.
828
:You want to put it more in terms
of it's like this or put it more
829
:into a story where it's going to
be more memorable for them as well.
830
:That takes them out of you're
just telling me things, you're
831
:just telling me information.
832
:You're
833
:Angie: Absolutely.
834
:John: telling them information.
835
:Angie: Listen, they don't need
us to tell them what to do.
836
:That's if there's a skill.
837
:Don't tell your clients what to do.
838
:That is not, you're not their mama.
839
:Don't tell people what to do.
840
:Even if they ask Angie, what
do you think I should do?
841
:I'm not you I can't answer
that for you, right?
842
:This has to be your answer, whatever
but don't tell people what to do That's
843
:a skill because I think there's a lot
of coaches out there that Want to,
844
:listen, certainly we see things from
a different perspective and I've been
845
:caught, I've been caught in this a
couple of times where I thought I knew
846
:whether it was like a best next step
or what the outcome could be, right?
847
:A good outcome could be.
848
:And you know what?
849
:That was unfair because what they deemed,
as a good outcome and what I deemed
850
:as a good outcome were not the same.
851
:You're not a consultant.
852
:We've talked about that, before you're
not here to say, Hey, this is where
853
:you should invest your money, right?
854
:If you want to do this,
this is what you should do.
855
:No, it's not.
856
:Could should it's what do
you, how do you perceive this?
857
:That's how you get the
longer lasting results.
858
:I feel like, you know what I mean?
859
:It's like, you need to
figure this out for yourself.
860
:But I'm here to help you do that.
861
:Understand I'm not here
to tell you what to do.
862
:Or they, I've actually had a couple of
clients reframe it and say, Well, what
863
:would you do if you were in that position?
864
:Or what should I do?
865
:Right?
866
:And then they'll go, Well, what would
you do if you were in that position?
867
:I'm not.
868
:You are.
869
:Let's talk about that.
870
:John: Or what I've done when
that happens to me is, okay,
871
:let's say I am in that position.
872
:What would you guys, what
would you advise me to do?
873
:Angie: Exactly.
874
:John: you're the coach now,
you tell me, what I do?
875
:Angie: Right.
876
:Yeah, it's definitely, that's, I've
done that a couple of times actually.
877
:It's a good reminder.
878
:A cool alternative perspective.
879
:John: Yeah,
880
:Angie: just shifting like you
really have your own answers.
881
:You're just afraid to
882
:John: I think, yeah, there's
probably a lot more skills that
883
:we could potentially get into.
884
:But, for the sake of time, we probably
should start wrapping things up.
885
:But I do think there's, there's
certainly things like being able to
886
:align values and things like that.
887
:That's definitely a skill that can be
quite helpful sometimes, but not always
888
:essential in every coaching session.
889
:And a bunch of other stuff that, probably
people might come back at us with as well.
890
:Yeah.
891
:We are going to do some deeper dive
into individual episodes that will
892
:be about some of the particular
skills and how we've developed them
893
:or what we might even recommend for
you for advancing them for yourself.
894
:And hopefully they will prove to
be very valuable for you as well.
895
:Angie: I'd be
896
:John: we're
897
:Angie: as to how the audience like what
are they struggle with as coaches right
898
:for those who are already established
What does it think you struggle with?
899
:Oh, I'd love to hear what
they feel like they need to be
900
:working on to be a better coach.
901
:What skills specifically?
902
:Here
903
:John: you can let us know and the
best way to do that is to leave us a
904
:voicemail sadly at the moment that's
the best way and to do that all
905
:you need to do is go to speakpipe.
906
:com speakpipe.
907
:com forward slash the coaching
clinic podcast and you can
908
:leave us a voicemail there.
909
:Let us know what are the coaching
skills that you struggle with
910
:or what the coaching skills you.
911
:Maybe we've mentioned today that you
think, Oh, I'm not very good at that.
912
:How do I get better at it?
913
:Let us know where you're feeling
challenged with your skills to coach,
914
:or are you worried that there are
skills that you don't even know
915
:that you think you should have?
916
:Angie: go
917
:John: you're feeling, that you're feeling
a bit too fresh and green and don't know
918
:if you're heading in the right direction.
919
:Let us know, we want to be a guide for
you on your coaching business journey.
920
:And we would love to hear from you.
921
:And if we like your message, we
might even feature you on the show.
922
:Angie: Yeah, that'd be such a good time.
923
:Come on And
924
:John: So we'll be back next
week with another sparkling
925
:episode of The Coaching Clinic.
926
:But until then, we hope you
have an amazing week and we look
927
:forward to hearing from you.
928
:Angie: bye for now
