What Makes a Great Coach? Exploring Essential Coaching Traits

Angie: 00:00:00

John,

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John: Angie,

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Angie: what's your best

quality as a coach?

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John: I'd say that my clients always

know exactly what to do after a

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coaching call, so getting people to

take action, that's my best quality.

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Angie: Your clients always know

what to do at the end of a call.

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John: Yes, Angie, always.

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Angie: How is that?

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John: Because I tell them

exactly what to do on the call.

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Angie: Wait, you do what?

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John: Let's start the show.

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Angie: Oh my God!

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John: That's just what I do, alright?

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Angie: Okay.

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Whatever.

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This is really interesting.

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I love love.

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This is probably one

of my favorite topics.

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Because I think there's a lot of debate

here on what actually makes a good coach.

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Are you born a coach?

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Is it something that you learn?

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So I have some really specific opinions,

but my question to you is, In all

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seriousness, outside of that intro what

do you think makes somebody a good coach?

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What are the traits that

make somebody a good coach?

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John: There could be a few different

ways to look at this, but I'm looking

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at it very much from the perspective

of what makes someone good as a coach,

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not necessarily what makes them good or

successful in the business of coaching.

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'cause I think those may be different

things because, but yeah, the actual

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qualities of a coach for good quality

coaching may be a little different and so.

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I think they also can give a really big

clue as to what the negative traits would

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be in coaching for a not so good coach.

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And so it is an interesting topic.

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Something that I probably wish I'd really

had a bit more insight to in my earlier

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days as a coach, because whether you're

examining through this lens yourself

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as a coach, or you're thinking about

whoever coaches you, because hopefully

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you have a coach in your life as well

as a coach these are important things

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to be thinking about and probably I

would say the top thing for me is the

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ability let me, between two things, but

I'm gonna say the ability to be fully

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present on a call with your client.

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Angie: I, first of all, I have to say,

high five and big hugs because I love that

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you differentiated in the very beginning,

between traits and I forget exactly what

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word you used but right that there are

things that we can do in our business

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to make us successful in business as a

coach but that doesn't always translate

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into who we are as a coach I mean you

think it would right you think it would.

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So here comes the cynic that is right but

I know some people who are Very successful

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as coaches in terms of their business,

in terms of their earnings and income.

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They aren't great coaches.

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And I sometimes scratch my head

and go, how is that even happening?

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And I guess I say that a little

judgmentally, but it really is the

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truth because on the other side of that.

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I know some people that are newer

to coaching that had left, primary

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jobs, careers and said, okay, I'm

going to take my expertise and become

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a coach that aren't doing so great,

but they're really good at what they

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do because I've coached with them.

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Right.

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How do I know?

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Because I've coached with them.

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So that's an interesting thing.

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Way to separate those but in terms of

the actual, the traits, I, yes, I do have

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to out of the gate agree with you that,

that listening piece is always, I don't

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care what framework you're using, I don't

care what topic you're talking about,

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you have to be able to listen.

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You have to be able to hold space.

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You have to.

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That is and yeah, look, you were just

about to breathe and say something.

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And what did I do?

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I stopped listening.

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So go ahead, please, John.

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John: Okay.

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Thank you Angie.

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No, look, all I was gonna say there is.

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You have to have that awareness to be

fully in the moment on the call with

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them which means If you're distracted

when you're on a call and it's going

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to happen sometimes that you are you

and you'll notice the difference In the

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quality of your coaching and if you're

trying to do other things whilst you're

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on a coaching call other than perhaps

your coaching notes Then also you're not

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going to be fully present on the call.

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So be there with the person listening

intently, if you're able to do face to

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face and it's not just an audio call,

because I think most coaching probably

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is zoom or in person these days,

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Angie: don't,

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John: you don't, you still do

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Angie: I don't use Zoom.

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Yep, I actually do.

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I was going to say it and I cut you off,

but I'm not being a good coach right now.

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But I prefer just the phone because it's

not just me that gets distracted, right?

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Sometimes it's the client because they're

like, Hey, what's that behind you?

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Or I love your filter today,

or your hair is so pretty, or.

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Geez, Angie, I didn't know whatever it is.

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Whatever it is.

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I just I'm able to tune into

things, tone, energy, much

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better without looking at them.

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And I know that sounds, there are

people that are gonna come at me

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and go, Angie, how is that possible?

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John: I get it because I've done

so much voice only coaching over

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the years that I totally get it.

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And I do not personally feel

that I need to have the video

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there for the connection.

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Angie: huh.

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Uh huh.

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Uh

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John: does seem to just be the industry

standard that we, that we use video now.

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So I have no objection to

audio only coaching calls.

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But now I'm in a, we're in an

audio, primarily audio only format,

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although now we are moving into

some video elements of that.

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I just don't think it's super important,

but that ability to tune in and to do

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things like hear the tonality, to notice

what may be going on for someone, or

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the listen to the silences that are

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Angie: Are you

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interested in it?

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John: as people are thinking, but

also as they're maybe trying to audio.

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Find a way to put things or say

something that's going to be a little

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uncomfortable for them, have to

be really tuned into all of that.

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So it's interesting that I said

being present, but you said

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listening and I don't necessarily

see those as exactly the same thing.

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But they're definitely,

definitely related.

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For me, the being present thing is not

thinking about what you've just been

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doing before the call, not thinking about

what you're going to be doing afterwards,

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just being there with your full

attention, as full as you can give it.

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To the client, the client that you're

talking with, and I do feel that that

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isn't just a great coaching trait.

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That is also a great personal trait

to be able to be fully pres, fully

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present with people in your life.

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Angie: Well, we hear about

that all the time, right?

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Like, around the holidays, I

remember somebody sending me

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something like, the best present

you can give is to be present.

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Haha.

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Right?

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John: Yeah.

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Good.

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Angie: there a little bit.

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It is.

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But you know what?

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There is truth in that.

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And it's interesting

because I was coaching.

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I was actually training.

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And coach once and I was listening in.

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So as I was training, I was

literally, this was all this

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was, there was no visual.

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I was listening in on the call.

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Everybody was aware.

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It wasn't like a big sneaky

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thing.

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And all of a sudden I hear click, click,

click, click, click, click, and I'm like,

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what?

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It was a very specific

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sound

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and it was somebody beating an egg

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John: And

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Angie: and it was the

coach, like beating an egg.

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They were having the session while

they were making their breakfast.

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And I was like appalled.

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I was like, I lost my mind.

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Not in the call, of course, but when it

came time to rate that, the way I had to

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do it through our system and read that?

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and.

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I was like

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no, just because you can,

doesn't mean you should.

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And if you're, worrying about how

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you're scrambling and then

you could hear the popping of

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The butter or the

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oil and you could hear

it and I was like, Oh

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my gosh, so very unprofessional,

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How would you feel if

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If you found out you couldn't see

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it, but if you found out that your surgeon

was like on his phone talking about his

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lunch order while he was doing open heart

surgery now again, That might be a pretty

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extreme comparison, but I'm just saying,

don't laugh, I'm telling you the truth.

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Imagine?

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John: Making me think of a client

that I used to have he'd book our

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calls first thing in the morning.

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I was the coach for me fully

present audio only coaching.

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But he booked his calls for as

he was waking up in the morning.

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So he's still coming to,

he's making his coffee.

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So I'm hearing all that going on.

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And.

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The first pee of the day he would take

me into the bathroom with him whilst

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he was having a pee, and keep talking,

and of course, I don't know if he

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thought that I couldn't hear this,

but anyway, don't do that, don't do

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it to your coach, and if you are a

coach, really, don't do that, it's

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Angie: No.

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I mean, it's just awful.

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It's completely, listen,

people want to feel good.

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When they're

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on a call with you, however, you're

doing it, I actually reserve my, like

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when I do group coaching and I do quite

a bit of it that I do on video, right?

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It's a lot easier to herd the

cats a little, you know, by

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do it, keeping the visual.

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But the one on ones I still

do in my private practice.

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I still do on the phone, but I

think that we have to remember

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what a client needs from us.

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And I think the second piece for

me, besides the being present.

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Is not being judgmental, which I have

found in recent years, the climate of

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the world is changing and I'm not here to

talk about it, all of it, but regardless

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of whether it's like religion, it's like

the things you don't talk about with

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your friends at the table or your family,

because you know, it could be like,

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A powder

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keg probably should not be happening

right within your sessions either you

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have to read like doesn't matter I mean

unless they're talking about something

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that is so ethically hey, Angie, I want

to start killing people for a living.

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Like I'm again, going extreme.

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Okay.

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So that might warrant a little

bit of a different approach,

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but

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John: Sorry, yeah.

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Hahahaha.

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Hey,

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Angie: wrong with you is stupid.

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Don't listen to this man.

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Do not look at the man behind the

curtain but, but truthfully I think

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the one thing that coaching has

brought to the surface for me is

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the real idea

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of.

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It takes all

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kinds.

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I have literally had people

come into sessions and

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tell me very intimate things

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about their personal selves,

their hygiene habits,

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How they identify, all right, and that's

hot topic, things that are coming up

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in more recent years, political stance.

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And I have had to make sure that

I don't come with a reaction to,

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even if it's oh, this is what I

believe in terms of my marriage.

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It could be something that's not

so hardcore and it could be a

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little bit more in the everyday.

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Somebody says, oh, I believe that,

a woman's place is in the home.

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I, anybody who knows me,

I don't subscribe to that.

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However, I have to remain out of

judgment so that I can still coach

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them around what their belief is.

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It's not my job to go, well, gee,

John, what do you mean women, their

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place is in the home doing what?

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Looking out of their home

office, I go that's bullshit.

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I can't, that is not a good coach.

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I'm not there to make them be

what Angie thinks they should be.

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John: I think that's

super, yeah, absolutely.

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Super important.

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I can very much relate to that.

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I feel that that's very much where I am.

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I.

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I always did my very best not, I

mean, there's judgment and there's

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judgment, you know, we have to evaluate.

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And so then that kind of place,

we, there is some judgment, but in

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terms of moral judgment or ethical

judgment, try to stay away from that.

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Like my feelings about someone else's

beliefs, unless what they're saying,

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as you say, is so antithetical

to anything that I believe that,

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Oh my goodness, I am horrified.

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I cannot work with you.

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And maybe that's happened once

in all my years of coaching and

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that I have to say to someone.

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I'm sorry I absolutely

can't work with you.

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But that I mean once and that's

product that was the conversation.

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I said, I'm sorry I'm not

gonna be able to work with you.

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I don't think we're gonna connect.

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No not feeling a connection I couldn't get

past this person being really anti gay.

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I just couldn't get past it and and

I never would have never would have

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got past that but I have been on call

with people who probably didn't have

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super positive feelings towards gay

people or, or my political stances.

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And people are pretty much polar,

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sorry about it.

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But people are like pretty, pretty much

political polarized ends of the spectrum.

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And I've still been able to

work with them and coach them

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because they're still people.

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Angie: I was going to just ask

you though, because I did have

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this, I had this experience.

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And this, I don't remember if it was

when I, within my private practice or,

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When I worked for a coaching

company, but there was, I did,

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I can see him clear as day.

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Remember him.

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I never saw him clear as day in my mind.

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And he was,

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The very, I don't even know

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why the, why I was

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aligned with this person because I think

it was within a different space working

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for a company because it was like he

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was assigned to me.

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And I was like, are they kidding?

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Did they, do they not know who I am?

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Because this person was

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very opposed to women being professionals

and it kept coming up and it kept, and it

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was like almost well, kind of, you know,

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he'd always refer to, he'd say something

negative and then go, well, like you.

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I'm thinking one more like me and you

and I are going to go at it, buddy.

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So I had to remove him from my

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roster.

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I had to,

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because

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I was being put in a consistent

basis on a consistent basis.

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I was being put in a position

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of having to control the idea of defending

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myself.

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It wasn't like, and I tried the, well, let

me ask you so why is it that, what is it

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about women being professionals that is so

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X, Y,

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Z for you and why do

they belong in the home?

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Like, honestly.

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And I had to have him removed

from my roster because he, I had

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nowhere to put that energy because

it wasn't like a one and done.

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It was pretty constant.

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And I thought, this isn't good.

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But I cannot coach him to my

fullest potential because.

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This is now becoming personal.

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It's not just a belief.

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It's like he's applying the

belief to me within our session.

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So I think we also have to know sometimes

when it's time to call it quits.

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John: lemme ask you then, do you feel that

it's an important quality to be able to.

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As a coach, detach your own

personal feelings about things and

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situations and people to be able to

effectively run your coaching calls.

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Angie: Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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I on, let me, I'll share this quick

story on the other side of that,

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I

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did have a client one time that Identify,

this was long before what was happening,

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now was happening, identified as

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a as a female body part.

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And it was like first session

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right out of the gate and I

was like I remember the feeling

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of huh, what did she,

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what, what happened?

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But what I did was I said, so let me ask

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you this question and that's

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fine.

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How will that affect our coaching?

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What is

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it you're looking for?

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And ultimately it was nothing.

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It was just like I

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need you to know this.

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It, and it was fine.

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It didn't affect our coaching.

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I didn't

330

: 00:16:35

come into the session, like

331

: 00:16:37

with visuals of

332

: 00:16:38

Oh, you're this and that.

333

: 00:16:39

I

334

: 00:16:39

didn't do

335

: 00:16:39

that.

336

: 00:16:40

Because the sessions

337

: 00:16:42

were still very open and vulnerable and

good and it wasn't being imposed upon me.

338

: 00:16:49

So I do think that I've

done a fabulous job.

339

: 00:16:52

If I do say so myself, right,

of, of being able to detach

340

: 00:16:57

myself from my own beliefs, et

341

: 00:16:58

cetera, so that I could

still deliver for this

342

: 00:17:02

person.

343

: 00:17:03

Because.

344

: 00:17:04

John: Yeah.

345

: 00:17:05

Angie: But, that one particular client,

yeah, that I had to kick to the curb, it

346

: 00:17:08

was because it, was, it kept

being thrown at me almost like a

347

: 00:17:12

little passive aggressive attack.

348

: 00:17:14

And I was okay for session

349

: 00:17:16

one and two, and Three and four.

350

: 00:17:19

It was like you're out.

351

: 00:17:20

I'm done.

352

: 00:17:22

John: we all have a limit to what

we can handle, but when I think back

353

: 00:17:26

over the years, certainly religious

clients is much more common in the U.

354

: 00:17:31

S.

355

: 00:17:31

than in the U.

356

: 00:17:32

K.

357

: 00:17:33

And religion isn't such

a big thing in the U.

358

: 00:17:35

K., so I'm very used to working

with people mostly from sort of

359

: 00:17:38

Christian denominations in the U.

360

: 00:17:39

S.

361

: 00:17:40

And even some that I would probably

consider a little bit on the culty side.

362

: 00:17:44

Now, I am an, I'm an atheist,

so I don't believe in any of it.

363

: 00:17:47

So my opinion on that isn't relevant.

364

: 00:17:50

And I'm not there to disabuse

them of their beliefs.

365

: 00:17:52

That's not my purpose there.

366

: 00:17:53

I'm there to see if I can

help them achieve their goals.

367

: 00:17:55

Now, unless they go, unless, if

their goals were against me or

368

: 00:17:59

against super against my beliefs.

369

: 00:18:01

I don't think I could if someone said,

came on a call with me and saying,

370

: 00:18:04

I'm trying to bring in legislation to

ban abortion or something like that.

371

: 00:18:08

I'd be like, yeah, I'm

not the coach for you.

372

: 00:18:10

I would know that.

373

: 00:18:10

I just wouldn't, I wouldn't wanna be a

part of that and I would be upfront by

374

: 00:18:13

that, but generally it's really not.

375

: 00:18:15

And the fact that we have been able to

connect and get along there is also

376

: 00:18:20

a part of me that thinks if they did

know what I was all about and more

377

: 00:18:26

about my life, they actually possibly

wouldn't want me as their coach.

378

: 00:18:32

Angie: That's absolutely correct.

379

: 00:18:34

And I think too, that, I think that's

why we keep some limitations as

380

: 00:18:38

coaches in terms of who we really are.

381

: 00:18:41

Because we don't want to be judged.

382

: 00:18:43

We don't want somebody to assume

that because I'm an atheist or I'm

383

: 00:18:46

Catholic or I'm whatever I am, right?

384

: 00:18:48

I guess the male female

is becoming debatable.

385

: 00:18:51

I won't get into that today.

386

: 00:18:53

But in terms of other things that

are not so obvious, I do think

387

: 00:18:57

that it could impede somebody

from making the right decision for

388

: 00:19:03

them because they think and she's

389

: 00:19:04

Catholic, right?

390

: 00:19:06

Well, I don't need to talk

391

: 00:19:07

to a Catholic

392

: 00:19:09

on the same side of that if

people know that about me, right?

393

: 00:19:12

It's not in my bio.

394

: 00:19:13

Angie is a Roman Catholic doesn't

know, or John, Angie is an atheist.

395

: 00:19:17

No, if that's the not, that

is not what I should be like.

396

: 00:19:22

Somebody should just, that should

not be a decision piece for people.

397

: 00:19:26

So I am a little, Discerning about

what I put out there publicly

398

: 00:19:31

which is important, right?

399

: 00:19:32

But to your point, like I think, there

might've been many clients that knew

400

: 00:19:37

if they knew anything deep dark about

Angie as the human, they might be like,

401

: 00:19:42

what?

402

: 00:19:44

Joking.

403

: 00:19:45

But for them, it

404

: 00:19:46

might be she's divorced.

405

: 00:19:48

How could she be a relationship coach?

406

: 00:19:50

Because I screwed it up.

407

: 00:19:52

That's how I fucked it up.

408

: 00:19:54

Who better?

409

: 00:19:55

I'm just

410

: 00:19:56

John: And you understand enough

and you're able to ask the right

411

: 00:19:58

questions and help people get what

they want in their relationships.

412

: 00:20:01

We get that.

413

: 00:20:02

We've had, we had a chat before

about bringing it, bringing your

414

: 00:20:06

point of view Personal stuff into,

although it was very brief, bringing a

415

: 00:20:10

personal stuff or life experience into

coaching sessions, we do it rarely.

416

: 00:20:15

And we probably do it very limitedly and

only really if it feels totally relevant

417

: 00:20:20

and beneficial to the client to do that,

we are not, we're not really there to have

418

: 00:20:24

that conversation with them, whereas they

should be hearing about us in our lives.

419

: 00:20:28

And I have come across coaches who

do that, who dominate the calls.

420

: 00:20:33

And don't even really give their clients

a proper chance to speak and express

421

: 00:20:39

themselves or say what they need to say.

422

: 00:20:40

Angie: Agree with you.

423

: 00:20:41

I definitely agree.

424

: 00:20:42

I think that's just hard

in general nowadays.

425

: 00:20:45

I think that just because we're talking

about it, like judgment can be a

426

: 00:20:48

problem, can be something that pops up.

427

: 00:20:50

But I also feel like.

428

: 00:20:51

It's not for us to utilize our

personal lives as validation for

429

: 00:20:56

them because I do think that a lot

of, a lot of my clients have come in

430

: 00:21:00

and said, Angie, what do you think?

431

: 00:21:03

And I always say wait a minute.

432

: 00:21:05

It's not really about what I think.

433

: 00:21:07

What are your thoughts?

434

: 00:21:08

Why are you asking me that?

435

: 00:21:09

I will go right at that because

I think I might've shared this

436

: 00:21:14

with you in a conversation or

in one of our previous podcasts,

437

: 00:21:18

but.

438

: 00:21:20

I remember saying to a student that I was

training and I said to her, you know what,

439

: 00:21:25

we were doing coaching and I was training

her and she, and I said, that was great.

440

: 00:21:28

Like I really love that.

441

: 00:21:30

And she, you know what her response

442

: 00:21:32

was?

443

: 00:21:33

Well, I didn't ask you what you

444

: 00:21:34

thought of me.

445

: 00:21:36

You're judging me right now.

446

: 00:21:37

And I was like, what?

447

: 00:21:38

Because I associated in my mind,

448

: 00:21:41

judgment as negative.

449

: 00:21:42

And that was a very defining moment

for me as a coach and thinking,

450

: 00:21:46

I have to be careful about

saying I'm really proud of you.

451

: 00:21:49

Sometimes I do.

452

: 00:21:50

If somebody is like they haven't cleaned

their bathroom in six months, and this

453

: 00:21:54

is true, and they were getting like

staff infections because they had this

454

: 00:21:59

like mental block and they finally do

it and I'm like, that is so amazing.

455

: 00:22:03

I'm proud of you.

456

: 00:22:04

It's sometimes I need to be a cheerleader.

457

: 00:22:06

But I also have to be aware of

saying to somebody, that is awesome.

458

: 00:22:11

It is the, it's re it can be

received as the same type of, it

459

: 00:22:16

can be received as jump judgment,

460

: 00:22:19

John: absolutely.

461

: 00:22:19

And,

462

: 00:22:20

Angie: just it's positive.

463

: 00:22:24

John: uh, I do feel that as professionals,

there should be an expectation to

464

: 00:22:31

separate and compartmentalize our lives.

465

: 00:22:34

Now, okay, before I was a

coach, I was a flight attendant.

466

: 00:22:38

Did I sit on planes and talk to the

passengers about my personal lives?

467

: 00:22:42

Well, only Chaka Khan, I think, I did

that with her, but, but pretty much

468

: 00:22:46

everyone, I know me, we got on very well.

469

: 00:22:48

We're like, we're like that.

470

: 00:22:49

Yeah, I know.

471

: 00:22:50

She's lovely as well.

472

: 00:22:51

But other than, you know, dropping

Chaka Khan who is it like?

473

: 00:22:55

Yeah no I, that wasn't really, it

was a lovely conversation, but I

474

: 00:22:58

wasn't telling her all about my

private life or all about my beliefs

475

: 00:23:02

or what I do and don't believe in.

476

: 00:23:03

It's just not appropriate.

477

: 00:23:05

I'm there as a professional and they're

representing an airline as a coach.

478

: 00:23:09

You're there representing

your own business.

479

: 00:23:10

Yeah, you, okay.

480

: 00:23:11

Maybe that's yourself.

481

: 00:23:12

Maybe it's just you, or maybe

it's a bunch of you, or maybe

482

: 00:23:16

it's a whole big business.

483

: 00:23:17

You are there representing

the business, who you are as

484

: 00:23:19

a person is not so relevant.

485

: 00:23:22

It's not irrelevant, your

weekend antics, your.

486

: 00:23:26

Sexual fetishes, whatever, do not

need to be shared on, do not need

487

: 00:23:30

to be shared on coaching calls.

488

: 00:23:32

Hey look, if you'd ever heard cabin crew

having a conversation in the galley, you

489

: 00:23:36

would know that everything gets discussed.

490

: 00:23:38

And passengers do get to hear that

stuff, but it's not appropriate.

491

: 00:23:41

And I think that's the same in pretty

much any professional situation.

492

: 00:23:44

We have to show up as a professional.

493

: 00:23:46

And I see this as being part of showing

up as a professional in coaching.

494

: 00:23:51

Angie: I would listen and I

don't disagree with you at all.

495

: 00:23:54

I think that is all very

496

: 00:23:55

true.

497

: 00:23:55

We have to create a little bit of a

hierarchy right in within our sessions.

498

: 00:24:00

We have to it's not a better

than or I am the all knowing Oz.

499

: 00:24:04

That's not what it should be.

500

: 00:24:06

But they, people who come into coaching

are relying on us to know a little

501

: 00:24:10

bit about what the fuck we're doing.

502

: 00:24:12

Just saying.

503

: 00:24:13

I have to say that folks.

504

: 00:24:14

I'm sorry for the potty mouth.

505

: 00:24:15

Right.

506

: 00:24:16

John might edit that out.

507

: 00:24:17

But anyhow.

508

: 00:24:18

But I do feel also I have, I will

be honest, there have been specific

509

: 00:24:24

times where it was relevant.

510

: 00:24:27

I had to gauge it as the coach and say,

okay, in my head really quick, if I

511

: 00:24:32

share this, is it, why am I sharing it?

512

: 00:24:35

What's the relevance to the

client that I want them to?

513

: 00:24:39

And listen, and honestly,

sometimes it is about, I've, I

514

: 00:24:43

actually had somebody who was.

515

: 00:24:46

Profoundly upset, depressed, angry,

anxious about going through a divorce.

516

: 00:24:55

And this is just one of many examples

by the way, and she was beating

517

: 00:25:00

herself up like I'm horrible.

518

: 00:25:02

Who's going to listen to me as a coach?

519

: 00:25:04

Cause she wanted transition out

of her day job into coaching and

520

: 00:25:06

blah, blah, blah, all the things.

521

: 00:25:08

And I was like wait, pause.

522

: 00:25:10

Is it okay?

523

: 00:25:11

So I did do first, I asked permission.

524

: 00:25:15

I said, would it be okay with you if

I shared something personal with you?

525

: 00:25:19

That is not to make this

the Angie show, but.

526

: 00:25:22

That I think is relevant

to this conversation.

527

: 00:25:25

And she was like, yes, okay, that's great.

528

: 00:25:28

I said, okay, well, I am divorced.

529

: 00:25:32

You are and the reason I shared that with

her is because I knew she had she held

530

: 00:25:38

me to a very high level and in terms of

respect and more to not be like hey now

531

: 00:25:47

you're in the club But more to illustrate

to her that she could still be a high

532

: 00:25:51

level professional even though fill

in the blank Whatever she was feeling.

533

: 00:25:58

John: consider that a high level sharing.

534

: 00:25:59

I've said With certain business

coaching clients over the years that

535

: 00:26:04

I've had some disasters in business

and I've even shared some information

536

: 00:26:08

about what those have been and how

it felt and how I got through it.

537

: 00:26:11

But I haven't given, I haven't

given them the full detailed story.

538

: 00:26:14

I haven't given them how I nearly

fell apart and turned into an

539

: 00:26:17

emotional wreck, it's like, that's

not really as relevant to the story.

540

: 00:26:22

We don't, we don't need, they

don't need all the juice, but

541

: 00:26:24

they just need to understand

sometimes they're not the only one.

542

: 00:26:28

In it, or that you maybe have some

experience of what they're going through

543

: 00:26:31

that maybe helps them to feel like

alright, maybe it's not, it's not just

544

: 00:26:35

me, I'm not alone, that's all cool.

545

: 00:26:37

So we have these things of, okay what

have we said so far, we've said being

546

: 00:26:41

present, we've said listening, we've said

547

: 00:26:43

Angie: judgment,

548

: 00:26:45

John: lack of, no judgement, we've

said a little bit, a bit of detachment.

549

: 00:26:49

Some professionalism as well.

550

: 00:26:50

I guess that's what we've come to.

551

: 00:26:51

We haven't really used the

word so much, but yeah.

552

: 00:26:53

Professionalism.

553

: 00:26:55

else do you think

554

: 00:26:55

Angie: I have a quick well, yeah I think

this is I don't want to make this a quick

555

: 00:26:59

point because I changed a lot of the

way I communicate from saying you, well,

556

: 00:27:06

you know, John, you have this tendency.

557

: 00:27:09

Sometimes I will say, you know what?

558

: 00:27:11

We're all human.

559

: 00:27:12

And sometimes we have a tendency.

560

: 00:27:15

That is something that to me is a

great trait is that I'm relieving

561

: 00:27:19

without the client even realizing I'm

doing it, I'm relieving some of the

562

: 00:27:22

burden of the judgment for them, of

themselves, even, so I, even I feel

563

: 00:27:27

like sometimes how we communicate.

564

: 00:27:30

is really important.

565

: 00:27:32

Somebody else might not, but, right?

566

: 00:27:34

When I say you, you, you, you, you, you,

it just comes at them at like this, from

567

: 00:27:40

this negative space, but I say, wait a

minute, you know what we're all of you

568

: 00:27:43

and we and I'm definitive when I need to

say John, what are you doing about that?

569

: 00:27:48

I'm not going so what are we doing?

570

: 00:27:50

That's not it, but I'm saying

like, do you know what I mean?

571

: 00:27:52

When I present sometimes, If it,

there's an overarching theme and there's

572

: 00:27:56

judgment of self, which I have to

pull clients out of pretty often, it's

573

: 00:28:01

well, wait a minute, we're all human.

574

: 00:28:02

We all are imperfect.

575

: 00:28:07

So

576

: 00:28:07

John: Here's a question for you.

577

: 00:28:09

So I know you've had coaches yourself.

578

: 00:28:11

I know you've worked with

and trained other coaches.

579

: 00:28:14

I've had those experiences too.

580

: 00:28:16

What have been the things that have

pretty quickly let you know whether you

581

: 00:28:21

have confidence that this person is going

to be a good coach or is a good coach?

582

: 00:28:28

Angie: When I'm training them or even

oh, so you mean the people that I've

583

: 00:28:31

helped transition out like clients.

584

: 00:28:34

John: Either, when you're

training people as a coach or when

585

: 00:28:37

you've hired coaches yourself.

586

: 00:28:39

What have been the things that have

let you know, I'm in good hands here

587

: 00:28:42

or this person is good at what they do?

588

: 00:28:44

He's

589

: 00:28:46

Angie: because I don't know

if I ever really looked at it,

590

: 00:28:48

but the answer just came to me.

591

: 00:28:50

It's what their focus is.

592

: 00:28:51

If their focus is on them, them, them,

and I and it's hard for me to define all

593

: 00:28:58

the ways that it can be about them, right?

594

: 00:29:00

Like I'm not sure I'm doing this right.

595

: 00:29:02

I'm not sure of this.

596

: 00:29:03

I don't know what, and

it's more client focused.

597

: 00:29:08

They may not have, they may not have

their bearings yet, but I know they

598

: 00:29:14

can be a great, they can be taught

the tactical side of coaching,

599

: 00:29:19

which maybe we'll talk about, right?

600

: 00:29:22

But the, I think that, you

mentioned something like, are

601

: 00:29:25

people born to be coaches?

602

: 00:29:26

I will tell you with 10, 000 percent

certainty that I believe that I

603

: 00:29:31

was born to be of human service.

604

: 00:29:33

Yes, I believe that.

605

: 00:29:35

It may sound a little woo woo, but then

I've been able to be taught framework to

606

: 00:29:40

take my talent, like having an Olympian,

they're born with certain help me word,

607

: 00:29:46

help me talents, certain talents, right?

608

: 00:29:50

That are just natural and inherent.

609

: 00:29:52

And then somebody takes

those and fine tunes them.

610

: 00:29:56

So I think that when I look at

somebody and say, Hey, are the,

611

: 00:29:59

cause the people I trained, they

weren't guaranteed a position.

612

: 00:30:03

So what I thought really mattered,

that was a lot of pressure.

613

: 00:30:07

And that's what I guess I really

looked for was what was their focus?

614

: 00:30:11

Was it on the client and doing

the digging and being present?

615

: 00:30:15

Or was it on little B

what am I doing wrong?

616

: 00:30:18

Mm hmm.

617

: 00:30:20

John: I get that I maybe have

a slightly different answer.

618

: 00:30:25

I'm very much when I hire a coach

particularly, but I do look for a

619

: 00:30:30

certain level of competence that I

do want to really get that sense of

620

: 00:30:34

they know what they're doing and they

have some level of confidence and

621

: 00:30:36

competence to be able to deliver that.

622

: 00:30:39

And if I feel they don't have that,

that makes me a little uncertain

623

: 00:30:42

as well about working with them.

624

: 00:30:43

So I think those are important

traits for a coach as well.

625

: 00:30:47

So for me as well, like if I'm looking at

hiring coach, I want to get, I am going

626

: 00:30:50

to ask them about their experience, not so

much trait, but the fact, if they're able

627

: 00:30:55

to communicate their experience clearly

and demonstrate their knowledge and talk

628

: 00:31:00

about things that are incredibly relevant.

629

: 00:31:03

And one of the things that has really

impressed me over the years, one, one

630

: 00:31:06

guy that wasn't, didn't actually hire

him as a coach, but damn, he was good.

631

: 00:31:10

I was telling him something I

was having a challenge with.

632

: 00:31:13

He created this whole story as a

metaphor that wasn't about me, but it

633

: 00:31:18

was so well put together in the spot.

634

: 00:31:21

And I thought, oh my God,

that is a real coaching gift.

635

: 00:31:25

That's some, that's something

I'm not so great at.

636

: 00:31:26

I would love to be good at.

637

: 00:31:28

But that was a real coaching gift that

like, man, man, I probably should,

638

: 00:31:31

should have hired him as a coach.

639

: 00:31:33

But super, super

640

: 00:31:34

Angie: Well, yeah, I think certainly being

able to illustrate like coaching isn't

641

: 00:31:40

always like the give the take, we ask

you a question, you answer the question.

642

: 00:31:44

I think that there's like the part

of the gift is being able to see

643

: 00:31:49

the overarching theme, which we've

talked about how to be bird's eye and

644

: 00:31:52

still be present at the same time.

645

: 00:31:54

But being able to illustrate.

646

: 00:31:58

That to a client illustrates something

to them without you having to be it's

647

: 00:32:03

not always direct because sometimes

you know, i'm a very visual person.

648

: 00:32:07

I'm a very visual coach.

649

: 00:32:09

I can't tell you how many times i've

you know Metaphorically coached somebody

650

: 00:32:14

right and i'm not saying that's exactly

what you're talking about But yeah,

651

: 00:32:17

so that they can take that and apply

it and knowing which clients are

652

: 00:32:23

going to be receptive to that yeah, I

653

: 00:32:27

John: one more trait I in my mind that is

coming up for me has probably been the one

654

: 00:32:31

I, the last one I would want to cover and.

655

: 00:32:34

That would really be about being able

to hold your clients accountable.

656

: 00:32:39

And actually being able to do that and

having, a level of confidence and to

657

: 00:32:43

some degree, maybe even assertiveness

without it becoming brash or rude

658

: 00:32:47

or mean or anything like that.

659

: 00:32:48

But actually just being able to

directly hold your clients accountable.

660

: 00:32:52

Actually no, there are two more.

661

: 00:32:54

That, and one that maybe

should have come up earlier.

662

: 00:32:56

And that sense that you really care.

663

: 00:33:02

Angie: agree.

664

: 00:33:03

I think that care is huge because

I think that I believe that people.

665

: 00:33:09

can smell BS a mile away, right?

666

: 00:33:11

So if you're just tactical,

tactical, tactical, I think people

667

: 00:33:14

are going to have a harder time

building rapport and trusting you.

668

: 00:33:18

So I think that's important, but you

and I know each other professionally,

669

: 00:33:23

right and would you say that my

reputation is one that it's like I

670

: 00:33:31

have a bit of a reputation for being

a little bit the word isn't harsh.

671

: 00:33:37

John: Talk To

672

: 00:33:38

Angie: I am very direct.

673

: 00:33:40

And I have zero problem holding

people accountable, but I never

674

: 00:33:47

ever, I've never done it and I

hope I never do it by accident.

675

: 00:33:53

But I have never

essentially shamed somebody.

676

: 00:33:55

Holding somebody accountable

does not mean I'm your mama.

677

: 00:33:59

And if somebody says to me,

Angie, I need you to hold me

678

: 00:34:01

accountable, I will ask in what way?

679

: 00:34:04

And if I even hear a hint of

something that reminds me of a mom

680

: 00:34:07

trait, I will flat out say, I will

definitely, John, I will hold you

681

: 00:34:12

accountable, but I'm not your mama.

682

: 00:34:14

Right?

683

: 00:34:15

You're not in trouble if

you don't do the work.

684

: 00:34:18

That's not going to happen.

685

: 00:34:20

Right, but yeah, I am extremely direct.

686

: 00:34:25

John: You know, I was thinking this

kind of, for me, this naturally leads

687

: 00:34:27

us towards conversations about coaching

skills, but I think those are things we

688

: 00:34:32

could probably spend specific episodes on.

689

: 00:34:34

Rather than just have an episode where

we just say what those we've actually go

690

: 00:34:38

through some specific coaching skills.

691

: 00:34:40

I think that would be good.

692

: 00:34:41

And we'll take a look at that.

693

: 00:34:41

We'll decide which one we're

going to start with, but this

694

: 00:34:44

has been a fun conversation.

695

: 00:34:45

You're

696

: 00:34:45

right.

697

: 00:34:46

it's been very interesting.

698

: 00:34:48

And I think maybe we'll come

back and do it again next time.

699

: 00:34:52

Angie: Oh, absolutely.

700

: 00:34:53

Give me more, baby.

701

: 00:34:54

Give me more.

702

: 00:34:56

John: Well, we definitely

will be back very soon.

703

: 00:34:58

So look out for us next Wednesday.

704

: 00:35:00

That's when the episodes drop.

705

: 00:35:01

But in the meantime,

do you have questions?

706

: 00:35:03

Do you have, do you disagree with

us on any of the traits of a coach?

707

: 00:35:06

Do you agree with us

and want to let us know?

708

: 00:35:09

Or do you have something

to add to the conversation?

709

: 00:35:11

Or maybe you have questions around

coaching, coaching business,

710

: 00:35:14

coaching habits, coaching traits.

711

: 00:35:15

You'd like to ask us, you

can leave us a voicemail.

712

: 00:35:18

It's free to do.

713

: 00:35:19

All you need to do is visit

speakpipe.com/the coaching clinic podcast,

714

: 00:35:25

speakpipe.com/the coaching Clinic podcast.

715

: 00:35:28

You can find the link in the show

notes and say it's free to do.

716

: 00:35:31

Please leave us a message and

if it's good, we might just

717

: 00:35:33

feature you on this show.

718

: 00:35:35

Angie: Yeah, I would love to start

hearing a little bit more from everybody.

719

: 00:35:38

Hey, what are your thoughts?

720

: 00:35:40

New coach, coaches in training, veteran

coaches would love to hear your input.

721

: 00:35:46

John: Absolutely, we're

looking forward to it.

722

: 00:35:48

So we'll be back again very soon.

723

: 00:35:49

In the meantime, have an amazing week.

724

: 00:35:51

Angie: Bye.