Better Up or Better Off Alone: Is it better to work with a coaching company or to focus on your own coaching business?
Navigating the Coaching Industry: Going Solo vs. Joining a Company
In this podcast episode, Angie and John delve into the complexities of the coaching profession, specifically discussing the advantages and disadvantages of working independently versus under the umbrella of a coaching company like BetterUp.
They share personal experiences and insights into the certification process, client acquisition, income expectations, and the potential limitations of non-compete clauses.
The conversation also touches on the importance of doing thorough research before joining a coaching organization, the value of having a defined niche, and the prospects of building a successful coaching career either independently or as part of a coaching company.
John and Angie encourage listeners to weigh the pros and cons carefully, considering the impact on their long-term career goals in the coaching industry.
00:00 Opening Banter: A Playful Start
01:11 Diving Into the World of Coaching: Solo vs. Company
01:30 Exploring the Pros and Cons of Coaching Companies
03:49 Certification and the Coaching Industry Standards
09:27 The Financial Aspects of Coaching with a Company
14:41 Personal Experiences and Insights on Coaching Careers
16:03 Navigating the Coaching Company Landscape: Questions and Considerations
33:17 Closing Thoughts and Listener Engagement
Transcript
Angie,
2
:Angie: Hey John.
3
:Do
4
:John: you like doing it by yourself
or do you prefer some help?
5
:Angie: I'm very confused about
where this conversation is heading.
6
:John: Angie, we're a
podcast about coaching.
7
:How dare you insinuate that
my very intentional double
8
:entendre was about anything else
9
:Angie: So you're asking me if I like
to coach alone or with a company.
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:John: Was there ever any doubt?
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:Angie: Hopefully I just can't with you.
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:Let's start the show,
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:John: So Angie, today there's a few
things we want to cover, some questions
14
:that we're going to try and answer.
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:So things like, do you need
to be with a company like
16
:BetterUp or something similar?
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:What are the pros and cons of that?
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:Are coaching companies
getting all the prime clients?
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:Is it better to go it alone?
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:How can you manage a mix?
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:All those kinds of things.
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:So let's get into it.
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:Angie, let me ask you, have you
ever been with a company like
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:BetterUp or something similar?
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:Yep.
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:Actually, even later
in my career, honestly.
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:Yeah, so I've done it.
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:I've definitely done it both ways.
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:Stop it.
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:I see how you're looking at me right now.
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:Oh my goodness.
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:John: Pull your mind
out the gutter, Angie.
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:Angie: It's a hard task.
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:It's a hard task.
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:I'll try.
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:John: I'm similar, I've had a bit
of a mix and have done a whole bunch
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:of my own stuff and worked with
companies where I've had my clients
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:by the hour, that kind of thing.
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:So yeah, it's it's an interesting concept,
but I've never been with BetterUp.
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:So, I do know plenty of people who are
with them or with some similar kinds of
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:companies and there, there definitely
seem to be some pros and cons to that.
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:Angie: I definitely agree.
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:I'm sitting here thinking about
it from all angles, like what's
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:really the great thing about it?
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:What, pros, cons kind of a thing.
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:I think if you're coming into coaching,
and we've talked about this a little bit,
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:we've started talking about should we get
certain certifications and do they matter?
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:And all the things.
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:And I feel like working with a company,
one of the big pros is that hopefully
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:if you're being trained, you're not just
being trained on their concepts, right?
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:Because there's differentiations
out there, right?
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:There are con, there are.
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:Companies that have a very
specific framework that they want
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:you to follow, which is fine.
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:And then there are companies that want
to rely on your experience and they're
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:only going to hire an experienced, higher
level coach to work with their clients.
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:So I think that's it.
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:I think it's fair to mention that
there's a couple of different angles
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:when working with those companies.
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:John: So, I do remember
when people, when better up.
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:I think it was one of the first times
where there was a big organization
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:that were like hoovering up coaches,
left, right, and center and saying,
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:come on work with us and we'll
provide you clients and we'll have
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:different levels for newer coaches,
more experienced coaches and super
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:experienced or highly qualified coaches.
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:And they have that, and it's worked
very well for a lot of people.
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:However, some of my resistance to going
down that path was that they require
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:you to have your certification with the
ICF and that they seem to be very set
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:on a particular kind of coaching, , ICF
certification requires that you primarily
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:focus on ontological coaching rather
than consultative coaching, which is very
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:different from how most coaches operate.
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:And I'm not sure if From the coaches
I know who work, we're better off
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:that that's what ends up happening
anyway, that they end up doing
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:more a mix of consultative, which
I think is commonly where people
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:tend to go down that path anyway.
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:So that's where I had
some resistance to it.
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:But also it's a lot of
hoops to jump through.
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:It's a lot of money to invest.
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:And there is no official governing
body in coaching, but no ICF is
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:probably along the way to doing that.
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:The EMCC in Europe, similarly.
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:These are now the sort of main
governing bodies where if someone
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:is asking for certification,
they're asking for it from them.
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:And, I've looked at it and to me it's
a lot of money to pay and a lot of
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:hoops to jump through to get there.
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:But I see the benefits of that.
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:I see the benefits of having coaches who
at least have met a certain standard.
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:Who, you know, haven't just called
themselves a coach and set up a business,
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:which is certainly how the industry
has operated for many, many years.
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:And that still does, though.
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:People can still do that.
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:Angie: Yeah, and I think that's
where it gets a little murky.
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:You know what I mean?
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:Because I was coaching long
before I had any certification.
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:And that coaching was based
on experiences, knowledge,
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:creating my own content.
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:I Which I feel like may be a better coach.
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:However, in that space,
it's a longer road.
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:It's very it's awesome.
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:It has its benefits.
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:It's like plug and play.
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:I'm already a coach, right?
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:By nature, I feel like I was anyway.
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:And so I have this opportunity
to go work for a company where
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:I don't have to find the leads.
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:I don't have to do a lot of no
administrative work virtually,
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:depending on the company.
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:Maybe some notes, things
like that, but honestly.
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:It's literal plug and play and if you're
passionate about coaching and you also
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:want the stability of some income,
then yeah, there's a huge benefit to
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:working for a company that is spending
their dollars to fill your calendar.
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:That's great.
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:Obviously too, what comes with that
is ha ha ha, no compete, right?
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:So there's pieces to that and those
non competes are generally two to
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:five years depending on the company.
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:That's great.
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:So the interesting piece is that if you
start coaching with somebody and you
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:hit it off, you build rapport and they
only want you, you decide to leave, you
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:decide to move on, like no touchy, right?
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:Cannot touch that.
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:So there's rules to play by, which
is fine, but I think being aware
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:of all of those before you just
go, Oh, Hey why would I do this
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:this way when I can do it this way?
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:Right.
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:Well, the longer road, I think,
is building your own business and
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:your own and filling your pipeline.
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:Right?
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:Your lead generation.
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:That's a long road.
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:But I also feel like, I don't know, like
what's your, what was your experience?
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:Mine happened to be a very good one.
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:I'm not going to mention the company
that I worked for, but I worked
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:for a very big name that everybody
who is a coach would know, even if
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:they're not a coach, they would know.
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:And was trained there in a very
different way and loved it.
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:I did love it, but so why did I leave?
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:Freedom!
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:Needed freedom.
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:I wanted my freedom back, essentially.
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:John: Yeah I started off by myself,
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:for sure but I was affiliated to some,
personal development groups, and I
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:did bits of work from here and there.
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:Then I did get brought in as a coach,
asked to join that coaching team.
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:And then I, headhunted from one
coaching team to ask to join
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:another which was very nice.
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:And it's certainly a privilege, especially
being asked for by the guy at the top
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:and that required being trained up in a
very particular way of coaching people
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:that very much like the whole message of
the thing, all the branding was around
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:the guy at the top, and then this is
Harv Eker, I don't mind saying, and so
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:we had to be able to know the content
well enough from pretty much all the
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:trainings and from the book selling
to be able to speak with his voice
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:to some degree on the coaching calls.
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:And so you can't really say
that there wasn't an element of
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:consultative coaching on there.
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:it wasn't still wasn't advisory.
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:It still wasn't like giving you
specific business advice or specific
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:direction, but being able to sort of
say, okay we can talk a little bit
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:more into particular areas rather
than we just got asking you questions.
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:I can actually throw out some
possibilities for you if you get really
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:stuck or we can actually consider options
together rather than just feeling like
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:you have to answer everything yourself.
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:So yeah, that was fine.
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:Certainly the rates were never
not bad, but they weren't great.
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:You know, it's
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:Angie: Oh
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:John: of those things,
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:Angie: right.
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:They're, listen, because they
have to make their money, for
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:John: They have to find
the clients for you.
171
:They have to do all the marketing and
they're investing in The programs,
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:the creations, the marketing,
the organization, everything.
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:And so all you have to
do is show up and coach.
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:So if you want those situations,
but all you have to really
175
:do is show up and coach.
176
:It can be great for that and of
course you still have to do some
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:of your own admin, but yeah,
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:Angie: No, and I was thinking that
the whole time you were talking.
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:I was thinking to myself, yeah, and
then there's the financial component.
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:Right.
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:my experience because many of my own
clients have, quit their day job,
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:to become coaches and consultants
in their field or other fields,
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:but mostly in their own field.
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:And interestingly, framework
worked best for them, right?
185
:They just, they wanted to be a part of
something where there was a framework.
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:And there is guidance because as you're
receiving information, you're getting
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:the ideas of what you should do as a
business owner, as coaching, right?
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:In coaching and that in that field.
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:So I think for newer
coaches, it's not a bad idea.
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:It's not an awful idea
because it is plug and play.
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:There is a lot to learn.
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:And when you start a business, you
don't know what you don't know.
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:But if you're somebody who
is already so experienced.
194
:And maybe you're just tired of the
grind, maybe you're tired of seeking out
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:clients and perpetuity and, all of that.
196
:So a lot of people do come back into
it, but I feel like from that financial
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:space, when you have that experience,
you can command that higher hourly rate.
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:And that's hard to walk away from, right?
199
:You might have to build up to it,
but in my world, it's worth it.
200
:So somebody might start out with a company
and maybe get paid whatever they get paid.
201
:I've seen it from, 65 a session,
which is an hour to 150, maybe 200
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:if it's an executive level here
and there, there might be special.
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:And that's just what I've seen and heard.
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:So that's great, right?
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:Like if, hey, if I can make 150 an hour
and you're giving me 10 or 20 clients a
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:week, I'm making a pretty good salary.
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:But it's not guaranteed.
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:There's a lot of things that don't
come with it, but you're at least
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:gaining experience at the same time.
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:So that when you want to fly the
coop, which most do, most people
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:that start out in a space like that,
they don't stay forever and ever.
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:I've never seen it.
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:Because they realize, well, wait
a minute, why am I doing all of
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:this for somebody else when I could
really be doing it for myself now?
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:I feel better.
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:I have more confidence and I do
feel like I could command more
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:per hour than I was making before.
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:I mean, I won't mention what I charge
at this point, but it is light years
219
:away from baseline for plug and play.
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:John: I think when you're getting started,
something better up now, I think if that
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:had been there when I first started as
a coach, great, I would have definitely
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:been up for that, joined in with it
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:and, got more, probably would have
earned more whilst I was getting my
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:grounding as a coach than I did when
I, when I initially got started where
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:you kind of left to it all and they
do seem to have a lot of training and
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:opportunity within them to be able to
step up to group things and and to develop
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:yourself to high levels of certification
and things like that as well.
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:So there's support in that system as well.
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:And primarily, it doesn't seem like you're
actually paying into it other than you're
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:doing the work for them as a contractor.
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:Because I know there certainly are
coaching Companies, I think, active
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:coaches, one that springs to mind,
but I know there's more than them
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:who you have to pay to play kind
of things that you join up and
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:you get all their marketing stuff.
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:And so that could still be very
helpful, but it's not for everyone.
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:But they have like particular strategies.
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:I think it's more of a franchise
style of coaching coaching business.
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:And you have the name and reputation
that goes with that as well, which
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:can be great in some situations.
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:But yeah, it does come with a downside.
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:Your earnings are somewhat capped
to what they're willing to pay you.
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:Your clients are somewhat capped to
what they can assign to you, because I
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:think clients still have to choose you.
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:They have selection of coach
profiles to choose from.
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:I believe there's some algorithms
helping make suggestions.
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:But also you get rated on every single
call you do, and you're still very
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:much on an hourly rate or half hourly
rate, and you're limited to how many
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:sessions you can do per client and
how much time you can spend with them.
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:And you definitely are because I
have a friend who stretched the rules
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:on that one and ended up getting
laid off from edirap because of it,
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:Angie: Well, I was going to say,
and there's that non compete piece.
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:So if somebody, as you're growing,
if people are like, oh, you're a
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:coach and they start referring you,
there are some companies don't care
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:and some are very strict about you
work for us, even though you're not
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:an employee, which is interesting.
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:But you cannot work for
yourself at the same time.
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:Do you have a business?
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:Do you have an llc, who are you and it's
like ooh, but again it I don't want to
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:sit here and poopoo that because if I
Had it if I could go back knowing what
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:I know now I would definitely have
been jumping in with a company because
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:I would have learned so much about
Even if it's not so much the back end
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:and how they're, cause I don't know
anything about how they, what their EAs
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:do and who's, how they're selling or
whatever, but it would have been a great
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:opportunity for me to at least have some
organization behind what I was doing.
265
:Nowadays though, I mean, think about
who might be coming into coaching
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:now versus when you and I started.
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:So I know things are much different
anyway, and there's so many
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:more things available to people.
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:In terms of training and certifications
and whatever it is they think that they
270
:need, but I think that at this point, I
like the structure of working for myself
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:and being in charge of the car, right?
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:Like I'm the driver.
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:I want to be the captain of the ship.
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:Not the first mate.
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:John: I do like, and I do
still work with this as well.
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:I guess we both do to some degree
of having that foundation of having
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:a regular contract with work coming
through to you and being able to
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:build your own stuff around that.
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:So again, not being tied down
by being able, not being able to
280
:compete or anything like that.
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:But having that steady, knowing you've
got your steady income as a coach and
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:whatever else you decide to do on top of
that, and to be in an environment that
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:actively encourages those things as well.
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:It's also very good.
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:But yeah not everywhere is the same.
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:And my, my experiences working
coaching organizations have varied
287
:and I don't think anything's been
particularly bad, but certainly the
288
:very first company that I worked with,
I did get to a point where I was like
289
:struggling to get paid from them and
things like that, it got a little bit.
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:Angie: Oh, no.
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:Alright, that's never a good thing.
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:I would say this.
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:Why don't we say what are some
questions that people could ask
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:themselves if they're trying to
decide is this the right fit for me?
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:I would say, first of all first and
foremost, is to do your research.
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:On a company, right?
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:If you're even considering doing a
big old, or just, work for a company,
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:do to your point just now, because
you don't want to be chasing dollars.
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:That is absolutely not
where you want to be.
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:But I think that's a first step
is, let me do some, let me make an
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:educated decision about what to do.
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:But what do you think are some
questions that somebody should ask
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:themselves before they make that choice?
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:John: They should ask, maybe ask
themselves whether they would like to have
305
:a bit of baseline income that they don't
have to work too hard for in terms of they
306
:don't have to do their own marketing for
and someone can just provide for them.
307
:the clients for them up and down to that.
308
:You end up sometimes with clients
that you'd rather not work with.
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:Angie: Government journalism?
310
:Yeah.
311
:I
312
:John: you don't get to personally
interview and select your clients,
313
:but if you're in a company with a
whole bunch of other coaches, you
314
:might choose to say at the end of a
session this isn't really a great fit.
315
:I think maybe you should
take a look for another coach
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:Angie: is.
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:Absolutely.
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:John: a, or even decide, try and
help them find that other coach.
319
:So I'm sure there, I'm sure there
are ways around that sort of problem.
320
:But yeah, think about do you
already have your niche or niche,
321
:however you want to call it.
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:Figure it out.
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:And if you do and you have a specific
problem that you want to solve, this
324
:might actually be something that
holds you back from going as big
325
:as you could go is if you have, if
you're already set up and ready to go.
326
:This might just slow you down.
327
:That's all I'm saying.
328
:So I think it's worth considering that,
but if you're still figuring that stuff
329
:out, or if you still really want to
get more of a, an experience in the
330
:coaching industry and have some income
coming through this, I guess the thing
331
:I'd say is, if you're thinking that this
is going to be your long term career,
332
:that's where I think it might be risky,
because I, we don't know how long.
333
:Better Up may be around for years and
years, or it may not, but you don't know.
334
:You're building your business
on other people's territory.
335
:And you're in this situation as well.
336
:They can, they control how much
you get paid to some degree because
337
:that they have their rates and they
maybe have some control over how
338
:many clients you get and they could
end your contract at any time any
339
:Angie: Listen, there's definitely the
risk to that, but I also think too,
340
:if you decide to take the route of,
Hey, I wanna go maybe give this whole
341
:work for another company a try, you
might wanna decide, because again,
342
:talk about the niche for a second.
343
:Are you gonna be all things to all people?
344
:And the reason I ask that is
because there are companies that
345
:are specifically geared toward.
346
:For example, in the real estate world,
there's Brian Buffini and Tom Ferry.
347
:They're like two of the biggest
names in coaching in that industry.
348
:And they both have companies where
they have coaches that get paid by
349
:them to coach people in that arena.
350
:So you want to figure that out as well.
351
:If I was going to sign on
with a company, I would.
352
:What would it look like have a little
bit of a vision even if you don't know
353
:what you don't know yet Just come into
it with something and say I was in sales
354
:or I think I would be great and say len
Maybe you want to work for a company
355
:that is geared toward coaching in the
sales arena Just saying yeah, you don't
356
:have to and then there's companies
that hire facilitators to come in
357
:and Just deliver information for them.
358
:There's different ways that you
can do this and earn an income.
359
:And how comfortable are you if
you're going to go into that space?
360
:If you're going to do it yourself,
that's a whole different episode, right?
361
:But this is that whole space
what should I really consider?
362
:How would I even, if I don't know
what I don't know Angie, then what
363
:questions should I be asking myself?
364
:And that's like that space.
365
:Do you think you can work for
a company, John and I have been
366
:talking about the ups and the downs.
367
:Thank you.
368
:Sometimes chasing money, sometimes not
most times I think not, and looking at
369
:the reputation of not the company in
terms of what their clients are saying
370
:specifically, because if the clients are
saying good things, it's because they have
371
:great coaches, which is good, a good sign.
372
:But you also want to look at it and
say, what are people saying that
373
:work there or have worked there?
374
:I did work for a company where I was, I'm
a great coach, but I was not treated well.
375
:I just was not.
376
:And that didn't affect my coaching.
377
:So I was getting rave
reviews from the client.
378
:But if you asked me about my
experience and there wasn't a fear
379
:of I don't know, somebody coming
at me for it, the honest answer was
380
:John: yeah,
381
:Angie: treated well
behind the scenes at all.
382
:John: yeah.
383
:I, I've had some experience like that,
probably not quite as much as, I think
384
:the worst of mine was struggling term
actually get money, which I did eventually
385
:get, but most of the places that I worked
since then has never been an issue.
386
:I and some of that is down
to reputation and leadership.
387
:if the people at the top are somewhat
questionable, even if they seem to
388
:deliver great and, have, there seems
to be like the best people go in,
389
:but if there's something there that's
making you think maybe they don't live
390
:everything they preach is off of that.
391
:You may find that that comes down,
it flows down as well and that there.
392
:could be some issues there.
393
:So I do think it's worth
taking a look at that.
394
:You're right.
395
:Look at what people who have worked
there have been saying about it and
396
:Angie: yeah!
397
:John: has been.
398
:People tend to talk about that stuff.
399
:Angie: And don't assume like just
because it might be a big name oh,
400
:it must be a great company, right?
401
:They must be awesome
because it's this person.
402
:I'm gonna say no because no, that's all.
403
:That's all I'm gonna say.
404
:John: Don't
405
:don't be blinded.
406
:Yeah.
407
:Don't be blinded by glitzy
packaging and stuff like that.
408
:The reality of what goes on behind
the scenes could be very different.
409
:I certainly know many coaches
who worked for a very well known
410
:coaching organization before.
411
:I've coached many of them and I know
that they were making far less than
412
:I was as a coach and mostly they
413
:weren't very happy and they
weren't very well appreciated.
414
:Yeah, and one, just one of the reasons
why I would never have gone and worked
415
:for that particular organization, which
I'm not going to name, but in terms
416
:of something like BetterUp, and I know
there are some similar places, but I
417
:think we are generally talking about them
because they are the top dog for this.
418
:The places that I know that are somewhat
similar do not pay anything like as close.
419
:So if you're going to go down that path,
you probably are at least at the moment.
420
:Mainly looking at them and you
also need to look at do you already
421
:have your ICF certification?
422
:Because if you don't,
that's a whole big thing.
423
:How much time are you going
to have to spend on that?
424
:How much money are you going to
have to invest in doing that?
425
:How many coaching hours are
you going to have to build out?
426
:To be able to get that certification or
EMCC is similarly, which I think EMCC
427
:is cheaper for those who are in Europe.
428
:And then should you be lucky
enough to get in with BetterArt?
429
:You have to go through the onboarding,
which again is several months where
430
:you may not be earning very much.
431
:Are you set up for that?
432
:Are you prepared to, it might be
actually quite a while before you may
433
:have to invest a fair bit of money.
434
:And time that you may not really
have if you're just getting started.
435
:Angie: that's a great question
for them to ask a company.
436
:I love that you brought that up,
actually, because you might, let's just
437
:say for example, somebody answers an
ad or something or is looking online
438
:and says, Oh, I want to apply and
they send in a resume or whatever.
439
:One of the great questions to ask
is, okay, I see that, the range is
440
:that we're supposed to be able to
handle between 10 and 20 calls a week.
441
:How long before I reached 10 and
how long before I reached 20?
442
:What's, is there a criteria that
must be met first of some kind?
443
:Because where I worked,
there was a criteria.
444
:And I didn't know that until, cause I
went in thinking like, Oh, this is great.
445
:I'm going to do this many sessions and
I'm going to make this much per session.
446
:And that's going to
equal this much per week.
447
:Cause I mean, hi, you're
sitting here, you're an adult.
448
:You want to know what you're making.
449
:And that wasn't the setup and
it wasn't a bait and switch.
450
:It wasn't like that, but I didn't
realize that there was a process
451
:and that was going to take time.
452
:And I thought, well, geez, I have to
go through training, and I have to do
453
:all these things, and how long before
I'm actually getting a full schedule?
454
:Whoa.
455
:And it was like five, six months.
456
:It was five or six months,
I believe, at the time.
457
:That is not a bad thing,
but you want to ask that.
458
:And ask somebody, say, hey,
realistically, What's the timeline?
459
:What is ahead?
460
:What does it look like for coach's path?
461
:And you might get an ambiguous
answer where maybe it depends on
462
:how well you do and how acclimated
you are and that kind of nonsense.
463
:And I don't buy into that.
464
:Well, it's up to you really.
465
:No, that's shit.
466
:John: I think you may also struggle
to get hold of the people who you need
467
:to get hold of to be able to answer
those kinds of questions for you.
468
:So I think that could be another issue
is it is pretty much a data company,
469
:or an algorithmically run company.
470
:So getting hold of actual people that
you need to speak to might be a little
471
:more challenging than you care for.
472
:You may not have direct reports as such.
473
:You may not get the sort of
feedback in those sorts of ways.
474
:Their feedback probably collated and sent
back to you in a report rather than having
475
:a meeting with somebody where it's going
to be delivered more, more personally.
476
:This is all my kind of imagining, or
at least what my understanding from
477
:people who are working with them.
478
:And so that there's good and bad to
that, you're working very independently,
479
:but you can also be involved
with some group things going on.
480
:And I know they do have those
kinds of elements in there as well.
481
:So, you're not necessarily out on
your own, but I would say if your
482
:goal is to become a million dollar
coach, like earning a million dollars
483
:a more year sooner rather than later,
484
:Angie: Puttin it out there.
485
:John: that's probably not
the fastest way to get there.
486
:And you're not going to be
making that kind of money.
487
:Really with, better up unless
you're working ridiculous outs.
488
:And
489
:Angie: And listen, there
are so many companies, exec.
490
:com, if you actually just did a
Google search, there are so many
491
:coaching companies out there,
and, again, I think it really just
492
:comes back to what's the vision?
493
:What's your need?
494
:What's your necessity?
495
:Do you need to be making
money immediately?
496
:Well, maybe, going into coaching
or transitioning out of a full time
497
:job all at once doesn't make sense.
498
:Maybe there is a transitional
period that needs to happen so that
499
:you can have the best experience
and the best outcomes possible.
500
:No matter which path you decide to
take but I think at the same time,
501
:you really have to have some idea.
502
:Of what you want you will learn
as you go as John and I share
503
:our own experiences, right?
504
:It's you know Some of them are similar
and some of them are and I've learned a
505
:lot just by talking with him and saying
oh I didn't know that it could even be
506
:a thing But do the best you can to do
your research to see how companies and
507
:if you're interviewed by somebody Don't
be afraid to interview them back, right?
508
:Don't be so like with any job.
509
:Don't be like I'm just ready to take
this job because I saw that it pays
510
:whatever 125 a session and okay,
but ask them good questions Right?
511
:About what the expectation is, how many
clients, how many, is it algorithm based?
512
:Because the company I
worked for, it was not.
513
:You were chosen based on the background
and the need of the person coming in.
514
:So essentially, I guess it is, but
it's not, it was really like we're
515
:just going to give this person to
Angie because she can handle them.
516
:John: Eeh?
517
:Angie: They're this, they're that.
518
:It wasn't, it was personally just,
it was decided, in that moment.
519
:Again I always had that question in my
head are there any favoritism going on?
520
:John: Ha ha.
521
:Angie: No, really,
seriously, you're laughing.
522
:But even for or against me, right?
523
:And not always against, but am
I just getting people because, I
524
:can handle a challenging client.
525
:So you just want to ask a lot
of those baseline questions.
526
:what's the expectation in terms of count
and, how long do your coaches last?
527
:You can ask those kinds of questions.
528
:I don't know.
529
:I think it's not just it's
not so black and white
530
:John: No, no.
531
:But, what's your take on.
532
:I think we've both encountered this.
533
:The companies, organizations where they
have a set of programs and they want
534
:you to have taken all of the programs
before you can be a coach for them.
535
:Angie: I did that.
536
:Yes.
537
:John: Yeah, I've done it too.
538
:Angie: Taking them.
539
:I'm not a big fan of hey Pay for
our program and then you can coach
540
:for us necessarily let me think
how I want to articulate this.
541
:So my feeling is I don't
want to pay to be trained.
542
:However, if I'm taking after I'm trained
and I'm working for this company, if
543
:I'm taking their intellectual property
and using it outside of their umbrella,
544
:their company, then I don't mind paying
for that certification or that fraud,
545
:like whatever, I don't mind that, but
I'm not absolutely not going to pay.
546
:For my own training essentially is what
it comes down to not going to do that No,
547
:John: mean, I was in a situation
where I'd already done the trainings
548
:and got offered the coaching
position, so I didn't actually have
549
:to pay to go and do the training.
550
:Just so I could do the job
as I had already done them.
551
:And that's one of the
reasons that I was invited.
552
:But with the same company I was
responsible for introducing new
553
:coaches around Europe for a while.
554
:And so I was selecting, interviewing
people at events and putting them forward,
555
:but the director in charge of all that was
asking them to basically become coaching
556
:clients for three months before coming
to the program, which I didn't like.
557
:And I didn't agree with cause they
had to pay to come into the program
558
:as clients to have that experience
that I, that should not be happening.
559
:so I,
560
:Angie: but you know what I did In
one space I did have to part of my
561
:training and I got paid for this
training It wasn't a lot, but I did
562
:get paid I had to go through their
program, their framework, because it
563
:was specific, modules and whatnot.
564
:I had to go through it as a client
first, then I was trained on it from
565
:the coaching perspective as well.
566
:John: I mean, I've done that too,
but you didn't have to pay for it,
567
:right?
568
:You
569
:just were expected to Yeah.
570
:you were expected to learn all
the materials that you would
571
:need to know in order to do that.
572
:Yeah, because I think even like he
was even in the situation where I had
573
:already done the trainings There was a
bunch of other trainings that weren't
574
:even available in the UK where I was
based at the time That I needed to
575
:know so I had to do what recordings
of those and get brought up to speed
576
:on all the bits that but I was never
expected to pay for any of that
577
:and Yeah.
578
:There's some dodgy stuff going on there.
579
:So If it's one of those things that
like seems like a really great job
580
:offer and then they're asking you to
pay up to be able to, pay to play, have
581
:a good think about it and look into it.
582
:Like really do your research.
583
:Like some of these places are reputable
and, but they do have that kind of
584
:model and may well work out very
well for you, but not everywhere is.
585
:So do your homework on that.
586
:And
587
:before you start putting money into
it, because it's all too easy to have
588
:things look really great and shiny and
not have all these promises made to you.
589
:May just end up not getting
delivered and I've been there,
590
:Angie, and it really sucks.
591
:I think maybe you have as well.
592
:Yeah,
593
:Angie: company and I didn't do,
I didn't have a bad experience.
594
:I loved the program.
595
:I believed in the process.
596
:That was important for me.
597
:It was in alignment with
how I like to coach.
598
:Also, although it was framework, there was
a lot of room to still sprinkle a whole
599
:bunch of Angie into the sessions, right?
600
:and that was important for me.
601
:again, on the back end, it was
just not a good experience for me.
602
:I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go venture
out into the cold a little bit.
603
:It's,
604
:John: I do think if you're a, if you're
very much a go getter, if you're a type A
605
:kind of overachiever and really ready to
go for it, you might feel a bit held back.
606
:by some of these companies, organizations,
and you might well be better off just
607
:going for it by yourself, figuring
out what your niche is, doing all
608
:your marketing and getting into it.
609
:But if you want to go a bit slower
with that, to have time to figure
610
:out what that is, work on your
niche learn also about marketing
611
:and have some income coming through.
612
:And I think this could be one of the
ways that you might choose to go.
613
:There are other coaching
opportunities out there.
614
:There are some that don't
require you to have ICF or EMCC
615
:certifications, just so you know.
616
:It's not, whilst it may be
starting to become a bit more of
617
:a standard, it's not there yet.
618
:So just know that it's not, you're
not excluded from the market.
619
:But also you might be thinking
can I get to work with some
620
:of those big name companies?
621
:If I want to work with people from Google
or MasterCard or, I'm trying to think of
622
:big name companies off the top of my head.
623
:But if you want to work with those people
and you know, that like better up or
624
:somewhere similar has contracts with them.
625
:Can you still get work with them?
626
:Yeah, you can.
627
:Angie: Oh, absolutely.
628
:John: you can.
629
:Pack
630
:Angie: absolutely.
631
:It's not exclusive
632
:John: Yeah, it's not a monopoly,
as much as they might wish
633
:it was.
634
:Angie: hmm.
635
:John: We've probably covered about
as much as we need to with this, but
636
:it's certainly an interesting, topic.
637
:And we'd like to know maybe what you
think and where you are with this.
638
:Maybe you're working with
BetterUp or somewhere similar.
639
:Maybe you've had some good
experiences with this, maybe
640
:you've not had good experiences.
641
:let us know, and let us know
what your questions are.
642
:that you want answered either
related to the business of coaching
643
:or the practice of coaching,
you can contact us at speakpipe.
644
:com that's speakpipe as it sounds dot
com forward slash the coaching clinic
645
:podcast you can find the link in the
show notes you can leave us a voicemail
646
:and let us know your thoughts and your
questions we'd love to hear from you
647
:Angie: Yeah, absolutely.
648
:I hope you guys all take advantage.
649
:It's been great.
650
:John: yeah and we'll see you
again very soon with another
651
:episode have a super week
652
:Angie: Bye.
653
:Bye
