Certifiably Confident: Exploring Coaching Certifications

Angie: 00:00:00

Hey John.

2

: 00:00:01

John: Angie.

3

: 00:00:02

Angie: Do you have a

certification in coaching?

4

: 00:00:05

John: Yes, here it is.

5

: 00:00:06

Take a look.

6

: 00:00:06

Angie: John, it says here

you awarded this to yourself.

7

: 00:00:10

John: That's right.

8

: 00:00:10

I did.

9

: 00:00:11

Angie: So what value does that have then?

10

: 00:00:13

John: About as much value as all

my other coaching certificates.

11

: 00:00:16

Do you want me to make one for you?

12

: 00:00:18

Oh

13

: 00:00:19

Angie: John.

14

: 00:00:20

Well, I don't know.

15

: 00:00:21

Maybe.

16

: 00:00:21

Let's start the show.

17

: 00:01:06

So what we're going to be talking about

today, which I think is a question

18

: 00:01:11

that comes up for a lot of coaches.

19

: 00:01:13

I actually, Just ran into an old

friend who was like, I'm in Florida.

20

: 00:01:18

I'm getting this great, coaching

certification and she's all like

21

: 00:01:22

bright eyed and bushy tailed about it.

22

: 00:01:25

So we're going to talk about the benefits

if there are any, and maybe if there's

23

: 00:01:30

a downside or two, which I don't know

if I've seen any of those, but what

24

: 00:01:33

are your thoughts about it, John?

25

: 00:01:36

John: gosh.

26

: 00:01:37

I I feel like there is a mixed bag when

it comes to coaching certifications.

27

: 00:01:44

Some are good, some are not,

and I don't even feel that

28

: 00:01:50

they're completely necessary.

29

: 00:01:52

Although I feel that the

industry is moving in that way.

30

: 00:01:56

And I know we've mentioned this before on

the show, there's good and bad to that.

31

: 00:01:59

That probably any industry, especially

one as big as coaching should have some

32

: 00:02:03

level of regulation and standards to it.

33

: 00:02:06

But it's interesting that the bodies that

have been setting themselves up in that

34

: 00:02:10

position have maybe different opinions

on coaching to other organizations.

35

: 00:02:16

So yeah, it's a very mixed bag and

it's hard to navigate through, but I do

36

: 00:02:22

generally think coaching certifications

are worth the time for people who are

37

: 00:02:27

new to coaching and Don't naturally

have coaching knowledge or experience.

38

: 00:02:33

So, yeah I valued my coaching

certification when I did it.

39

: 00:02:36

Angie: I have so many mixed feelings about

it because And again, I've been around for

40

: 00:02:41

a minute and when I first started getting

my certifications, the intention was

41

: 00:02:48

that I wanted to feel validated, right?

42

: 00:02:53

So I wanted people to know, I

wanted the public to say, they have

43

: 00:02:58

this certification or she has this

certification, therefore she must be.

44

: 00:03:04

And then just fill in the blank.

45

: 00:03:06

So, I think that as the industry

is growing exponentially, I mean,

46

: 00:03:12

everybody who's like, I want to quit

my job says, I want to become a coach.

47

: 00:03:16

Nobody's saying they want to quit their

job and become a doctor or a neurosurgeon.

48

: 00:03:19

I'm just saying.

49

: 00:03:20

And I don't mean that to downplay what

we do, but I think that some people

50

: 00:03:25

maybe take on the idea that they can

just do it and it's easy and it's not.

51

: 00:03:29

We know that, right?

52

: 00:03:30

It's not easy, but there's this idea

of let me become valid in this space.

53

: 00:03:37

And because so as the industry

is growing, so are the companies

54

: 00:03:42

that are Promoting get this

certification get that certification.

55

: 00:03:48

So I do have several certifications

and They're under big names Right.

56

: 00:03:54

I specifically want a one or two

of them I got because I was like,

57

: 00:03:58

Ooh, everybody knows that name.

58

: 00:04:00

If I say I'm certified under this

person, that's going to make me even

59

: 00:04:05

more attractive to people public.

60

: 00:04:12

But in recent years, I've intentionally

gotten a couple of certifications

61

: 00:04:20

and that was for the purpose of

being able to legally utilize.

62

: 00:04:26

Their systems.

63

: 00:04:30

John: Okay.

64

: 00:04:30

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

65

: 00:04:32

My first coaching certification

was a correspondence course.

66

: 00:04:35

And back in, back in the, before

there were online courses, there

67

: 00:04:38

were correspondence courses.

68

: 00:04:41

That's how

69

: 00:04:41

Angie: feeling old right now.

70

: 00:04:44

John: and so in the, when it, when the

course came through in the post, there

71

: 00:04:47

was that, the, what they called the thud

factor, the things you used to have, like

72

: 00:04:51

the folders, and it would like, you drop

it on the floor, you get a great big thud.

73

: 00:04:54

So a bunch of folders, a bunch of DVDs.

74

: 00:04:57

It wasn't that odd that it wasn't

even DVDs, at least it was DVDs.

75

: 00:05:00

So we're not talking ancient history,

although, you know, I'm sure there are

76

: 00:05:03

young people that say, what's a DVD?

77

: 00:05:05

But, but yeah, it was,

78

: 00:05:07

Angie: ourselves here, John.

79

: 00:05:09

John: I know it was a long time ago,

but it was really valuable to work

80

: 00:05:13

through that stuff and to have a bit

of accountability for doing it as well.

81

: 00:05:16

And that led me into some

other certifications.

82

: 00:05:19

However, the organization I got the

certification through no longer exists.

83

: 00:05:23

I think the guy sold his business years

ago and and sold it to someone else.

84

: 00:05:30

And the certification itself has

no recognition other than it's a

85

: 00:05:35

certification from this company.

86

: 00:05:38

So when you say, well, what value

is there, there was value to me.

87

: 00:05:40

Personally, and I've got a lovely

certificate to show that I became not just

88

: 00:05:44

a coach with them, but a master coach.

89

: 00:05:47

But it doesn't mean anything

really in professional terms.

90

: 00:05:50

It's just like a nice thing I can

stick on the wall and show people.

91

: 00:05:53

If they're interested

but I'm glad they did it.

92

: 00:05:56

I found the structure helpful and for

helping me to get into a bit more clarity

93

: 00:06:02

about what to do in a coaching session.

94

: 00:06:04

Angie: Listen, I definitely think

that there is, depending on what

95

: 00:06:07

it is, because I've seen some

pretty cheesy ones out there.

96

: 00:06:10

So when I do a review of something, I'm

like before I sign up, or before I do

97

: 00:06:14

this, there are some really cheesy, I'm

like, who is getting paid 999 for this?

98

: 00:06:22

I'm in the wrong business, obviously.

99

: 00:06:24

But I think that the best use of a

certification, I come to this from two

100

: 00:06:32

places, but is to enhance, you said this,

you touched on it, is to enhance yourself.

101

: 00:06:38

And your knowledge base as a coach

so that you can better serve.

102

: 00:06:43

Now on the flip side though, and I'm

sure that you've experienced this,

103

: 00:06:47

there are companies like, so if somebody

decides they do want to become a

104

: 00:06:51

coach and maybe they're not looking

to be entrepreneurs and they're going

105

: 00:06:55

to go work for a coaching company,

like in one of our sessions, we've

106

: 00:06:58

talked about, you mentioned better

up and then there's all these places.

107

: 00:07:01

They require some of these places,

these companies require you to

108

: 00:07:05

have some level of certification.

109

: 00:07:10

With the ICF the International Coach

Federation and they have three levels

110

: 00:07:15

of coaching and Do you have any of that?

111

: 00:07:18

Mine is pending.

112

: 00:07:19

My PCC, my professional coaching

certification is actually ending So

113

: 00:07:24

there's an application sitting there.

114

: 00:07:26

However, I'm qualified for the

master coaching certification Based

115

: 00:07:31

on years of experience, but they

116

: 00:07:33

John: Yeah, there is, there is a similar

body in Europe called the EMCC, which is,

117

: 00:07:38

which is also recognized by companies like

BetterUp and I myself am partway through

118

: 00:07:46

application for that bit that is taking

a while is all of the coaching hours.

119

: 00:07:53

Because, you know, the coaching

that we most spend most of our time

120

: 00:07:56

doing with the speaker lab is is

not suitable for for EMCC or ICF and

121

: 00:08:03

not just that the propriety issues

and stuff like that, there would

122

: 00:08:07

be problems trying to, using those

sessions for hours and recording them

123

: 00:08:10

and things like that for external use.

124

: 00:08:12

So yeah, that's a challenge for

me at the moment is by getting

125

: 00:08:16

the additional coaching hours in.

126

: 00:08:18

To be able to do that and put it through.

127

: 00:08:20

And there's also that part of me

that's like, Well, I can do it.

128

: 00:08:23

I'm not 100 percent

convinced it's worthwhile.

129

: 00:08:26

That's the

130

: 00:08:26

Angie: Well, at this stage, though,

because you've been coaching for a

131

: 00:08:29

while and I get that, when you reach a

certain space, when you've been doing

132

: 00:08:34

this for a minute, and this is for,

some of the new people that might be

133

: 00:08:37

listening, you start to really recognize.

134

: 00:08:40

What is necessary and what isn't, and for

me, having that certification pending.

135

: 00:08:46

I have over 10, I don't know,

I think I have 18, 000 hours

136

: 00:08:49

of coaching that I can prove.

137

: 00:08:51

That's a lot of coaching, but

there are some other requirements.

138

: 00:08:55

And I'm saying to myself, Oh,

do I really want to do that?

139

: 00:08:58

Because nothing.

140

: 00:09:00

So here's the truth though.

141

: 00:09:02

And I think this is

what you're alluding to.

142

: 00:09:05

It didn't matter.

143

: 00:09:07

They, it didn't matter.

144

: 00:09:08

Nowhere on my bio do I say I've

got over 18, 000 coaching hours.

145

: 00:09:13

I just, I at this point

go, it doesn't matter.

146

: 00:09:16

It's just not, it's not for me.

147

: 00:09:19

It doesn't matter.

148

: 00:09:20

But like I did say, there are

certifications that I have

149

: 00:09:24

that are super specific that I

utilize in my coaching practice.

150

: 00:09:30

Those are required.

151

: 00:09:31

There's CE for them.

152

: 00:09:32

There's updates that I need to do

annually or bi-annually, and I'm

153

: 00:09:37

happy to continue as soon, as long

as I'm using those frameworks.

154

: 00:09:41

I will continue to, do

the CE and do all of that.

155

: 00:09:45

But let me ask you this.

156

: 00:09:48

If you are a coach just starting out, if

you were just starting out today, would

157

: 00:09:56

you go and run and get certifications?

158

: 00:10:01

Of any kind.

159

: 00:10:02

And if you did, what would they be?

160

: 00:10:05

You're in the hot seat.

161

: 00:10:07

John: The answer is yes.

162

: 00:10:09

I would.

163

: 00:10:09

And here's why.

164

: 00:10:11

As I mentioned, like the coach,

the coaching certification I

165

: 00:10:13

did originally was a home study

correspondence course, which is fine.

166

: 00:10:17

And there was telephone group calls back

when we used to have, before the days

167

: 00:10:20

of online webinars, we had telephone

168

: 00:10:24

seminars.

169

: 00:10:24

What did we even call this?

170

: 00:10:25

You would phone in for

those sort of group calls

171

: 00:10:27

and stuff.

172

: 00:10:28

And that was all good.

173

: 00:10:30

But there was no industry regulation.

174

: 00:10:33

Anyone could call

themselves a coach trainer.

175

: 00:10:35

Anyone could call themselves a coach.

176

: 00:10:36

And I like that.

177

: 00:10:39

Now there is a sort of level

to which you're expected to me.

178

: 00:10:42

If you can turn up to problem I

have with some programs, if you can

179

: 00:10:46

turn out to a program and do it,

complete it in five days and get the

180

: 00:10:49

certification, mostly because you paid

for it, what value does that have?

181

: 00:10:54

Even if it gives you entry or access

to some things, what value does that

182

: 00:10:58

really have for you professionally?

183

: 00:11:00

And there's a bunch of that.

184

: 00:11:02

I'd say like my NLP trainers

and stuff like that.

185

: 00:11:03

Yeah, there was some

value to me personally.

186

: 00:11:05

But all these people getting

trained up as NLP therapists and

187

: 00:11:10

just being set loose on the world

188

: 00:11:12

Angie: Have you met some of those

people cuz I'm a little scared.

189

: 00:11:14

I've met a handful that I'm like, oh boy

190

: 00:11:19

John: Yes, I'm, I'm, going to fix

you now which is how a lot of people

191

: 00:11:23

went out there rather than for me

and for a bunch of others who I knew.

192

: 00:11:27

It's this is just some additional

tools to add into our coaching tool

193

: 00:11:31

belt for what we're already doing.

194

: 00:11:32

Rather than a whole modality that I'm

going to set my set up my business around

195

: 00:11:36

and even then, I, I've said before, it

would be interesting to have a, an episode

196

: 00:11:41

on these sorts of topics at some point,

but I'm not sure how valuable something

197

: 00:11:46

like NLP was in general to spend not just

all the time I spent on it, but the amount

198

: 00:11:53

of money that I invested into learning

it when probably some of the essentials

199

: 00:11:58

could have been learned from books and

practice and experience and whatever else.

200

: 00:12:02

Yeah.

201

: 00:12:02

I don't know.

202

: 00:12:02

There's a lot of people out there studying

very expensive courses in these kinds of

203

: 00:12:06

things and making a lot of money off it.

204

: 00:12:07

And some of them do very well with it.

205

: 00:12:10

I'm not saying I didn't

get any value from it.

206

: 00:12:11

I I just think there are things I could

have done for a better return on it.

207

: 00:12:14

Return on my investment.

208

: 00:12:16

Angie: Well, listen, I think that's with

anything that you do, if you go into a new

209

: 00:12:19

industry blindly, I would say that anybody

who is starting out, first of all, if

210

: 00:12:23

the podcast like ours says it the way it

is, and that's always great information,

211

: 00:12:28

not just because we're great, right?

212

: 00:12:30

But because it's a really good

information and it's coming from,

213

: 00:12:33

this organic place of, Hey, we've

been there, we've done that.

214

: 00:12:36

Oh, and we're still doing it.

215

: 00:12:37

And we've, and I think the beauty of

what we've done is that we've been

216

: 00:12:40

around long enough that we've seen.

217

: 00:12:43

The change and the

transformation in the industry.

218

: 00:12:45

And now we're both able to sit

here and say, okay, if I were to

219

: 00:12:49

go back to the beginning at this

point, I would say the same there's

220

: 00:12:52

two or three of the certifications

that I'd have that I would do.

221

: 00:12:57

And here's the thing.

222

: 00:12:58

I believe that there is a beauty

in a governing body, if you will.

223

: 00:13:04

Because the thing about coaching is

that it can be like the wild, wild west.

224

: 00:13:10

Right?

225

: 00:13:10

It can be like, Oh, I'm a coach now.

226

: 00:13:12

I'm, I've got business cards that say it.

227

: 00:13:14

I have a website that says it and

that's great, I think that some of what

228

: 00:13:20

people need to consider is when they

want to become a coach or, they are a

229

: 00:13:25

coach and they're looking at themselves

and saying, well, what do I stand by

230

: 00:13:28

and how do I decide how I'm showing

up, ethically, I think ethics can be

231

: 00:13:35

really important and we don't have.

232

: 00:13:37

There's no HOA above us, right?

233

: 00:13:39

There's no governing body that says.

234

: 00:13:43

You have to behave this way.

235

: 00:13:45

There's ethical, right?

236

: 00:13:47

There's ethical things

that come into play.

237

: 00:13:50

I think it can create a great amount

of awareness for people coming in

238

: 00:13:55

and not knowing what they don't know.

239

: 00:13:57

Right?

240

: 00:13:58

What does it really look like?

241

: 00:13:59

Cause honestly, so many of my old

clients have turned to coaching.

242

: 00:14:05

, I'm not endorsing it, right, but maybe

that got out of their marriages or

243

: 00:14:10

maybe they got out of , their jobs and

they've turned to coaching and they've

244

: 00:14:13

asked me like, Angie, what do I do?

245

: 00:14:16

And I'm like who do you want to be?

246

: 00:14:18

What kind of coaching

do you want to focus on?

247

: 00:14:21

Which we talked about in our niching

episode and then maybe the decision

248

: 00:14:25

can come from that space right,

so if you wanted to You know, for

249

: 00:14:31

example be an executive coach.

250

: 00:14:33

You have to know that that client is

going to be looking for you to be valid

251

: 00:14:38

for sure They're going to want to know

why You are the person so you have to

252

: 00:14:44

really think in advance of who you want

to talk to because And what might be a

253

: 00:14:48

value for you being able to coach them

and what they might be needing from you

254

: 00:14:54

John: Whereas if you want to become

a spiritual coach, you don't need

255

: 00:14:58

any certification.

256

: 00:14:59

Well, don't come to me either, I'm afraid.

257

: 00:15:03

I'm not saying there's not value in that.

258

: 00:15:04

Obviously there are people

want those services.

259

: 00:15:06

It's not right for you and I.

260

: 00:15:08

But what value would coaching

certification be in that kind of

261

: 00:15:11

situation when spirituality is such

a kind of individualistic thing?

262

: 00:15:16

So yeah, it's a good question.

263

: 00:15:17

I would say, yeah, in those sorts

of professional situations, we

264

: 00:15:20

talked early on about how long it

took to feel validated and build up

265

: 00:15:26

your belief in yourself as a coach.

266

: 00:15:29

And I think that's one of the things

that these newer certifications,

267

: 00:15:32

because you have to put in the hours,

because you have to be evaluated

268

: 00:15:35

by the coaches and certified, this

is not a situation of you pays your

269

: 00:15:40

money, you gets your certificate.

270

: 00:15:41

Because many people don't, many people

have to re sit the final exams for the

271

: 00:15:47

certifications and keep trying to get it.

272

: 00:15:49

So they don't just certify anyone.

273

: 00:15:51

I am a big fan of that.

274

: 00:15:52

So what, so once you've got that

level of certification, yeah,

275

: 00:15:57

there's some level of validation.

276

: 00:15:59

There's a good chance no client is ever

going to ask to see your certificates.

277

: 00:16:02

I've never had that situation before

278

: 00:16:04

Angie: good point though.

279

: 00:16:05

No, neither have I i've definitely had

people ask though hey You know later

280

: 00:16:13

on once they kind of get to know me.

281

: 00:16:15

Hey what got you into coaching?

282

: 00:16:18

How did you, so they're

more curious about that.

283

: 00:16:22

I think I've had maybe one or two, I

can think of one off the top of my head

284

: 00:16:27

right now, who while I was working under

a big name, not going to be mentioned.

285

: 00:16:32

And I was one of their coaches and

I was a trainer for them as well.

286

: 00:16:35

I trained other coaches for them

and I was still taking on clients.

287

: 00:16:40

And one of the prospects were,

they were very, very, cause

288

: 00:16:43

they had had coaching before.

289

: 00:16:45

They weren't really happy.

290

: 00:16:46

And even though the company was

endorsing me and saying, Hey,

291

: 00:16:50

you should go work with Angie.

292

: 00:16:52

They were like who's this Angie?

293

: 00:16:53

What why should I, and they wanted my bio.

294

: 00:16:55

They wanted a video.

295

: 00:16:57

I had to make a video of myself.

296

: 00:16:59

And but that was honestly, One

out of hundreds, thousands,

297

: 00:17:05

one out of, you know, so,

298

: 00:17:07

John: there's a level of credibility

though to being able to put ICF certified

299

: 00:17:11

coach or EMCC certified coach or all

equivalents on your profile, which

300

: 00:17:18

I think today probably does at least

give people some level of assurance.

301

: 00:17:22

Now that there is at

least there are several.

302

: 00:17:26

reasonably well recognized bodies of

governance in the coaching industry

303

: 00:17:32

that I would say is worth having that.

304

: 00:17:33

But certainly when we were

starting out, that didn't exist.

305

: 00:17:37

There were a whole bunch of

organizations who wanted to be

306

: 00:17:41

that and were trying to be that.

307

: 00:17:42

So I guess the sort of battles

have been waged and won and

308

: 00:17:46

lost, but that's how it is now.

309

: 00:17:48

So yeah, if I started out now, I would

probably want that because I think it

310

: 00:17:51

gives you a good grounding and validation

and shows you've been through some stuff.

311

: 00:17:54

And you're going to get coaching

experience because you have to submit

312

: 00:17:57

coaching hours and be evaluated on those.

313

: 00:17:59

I think it's a lot of good stuff

314

: 00:18:02

Angie: Yeah, no, I agree.

315

: 00:18:03

I agree.

316

: 00:18:04

Like I said, I think maybe one or

two of the original ones that I

317

: 00:18:07

got were, I don't even remember

the names of them at this point.

318

: 00:18:11

That's how long ago I got them.

319

: 00:18:13

There are, the ICF is pending.

320

: 00:18:15

Which is great because I think that

and the one in Europe are probably

321

: 00:18:20

the biggest, most well known, right?

322

: 00:18:22

But if I go get a certification under

a big name, there's recognition and

323

: 00:18:26

association prowess with that, right?

324

: 00:18:29

There's that, but that's, pay to play.

325

: 00:18:32

All I have to do is pay,

show up and that's it.

326

: 00:18:35

I am certified.

327

: 00:18:36

One of my certifications

though is in is in the disc.

328

: 00:18:40

Behavioral.

329

: 00:18:40

I love that assessment.

330

: 00:18:42

I know that don't come at me people

'cause I know there's others now

331

: 00:18:45

and everybody's well, DISC is old.

332

: 00:18:48

No, they've actually revamped it.

333

: 00:18:49

And I re-certified because I like it.

334

: 00:18:51

I believe it and I use it.

335

: 00:18:53

But that's not something that

somebody's going to look at and

336

: 00:18:56

say, Ooh, some people might look at

it and go, what the heck is that?

337

: 00:19:00

But I think, when you think about ICF

or others, and you know that there is

338

: 00:19:05

a process that you mentioned earlier.

339

: 00:19:09

It definitely makes people feel

like, oh, okay, oh, you're a surgeon,

340

: 00:19:14

you're about to operate on my brain,

and you didn't get your MD from, I

341

: 00:19:18

don't know, like a Cracker Jack box.

342

: 00:19:20

Do you have those in Europe?

343

: 00:19:22

John: Um,

344

: 00:19:24

I'm guessing you can probably guess by the

blank look on my face that we don't know.

345

: 00:19:28

I don't know what, I don't know.

346

: 00:19:31

Angie: all could see his face,

he's looking at me like the deer

347

: 00:19:33

in the headlights, like, what?

348

: 00:19:36

John: No, I have no idea what that is.

349

: 00:19:38

But it was something you

get a free gift with.

350

: 00:19:39

Yeah.

351

: 00:19:40

Angie: It is, it's like a little,

it could be a little tattoo or

352

: 00:19:43

something, but anyway, it would be

at the bottom of your little, I'll

353

: 00:19:45

get up to talk about that later.

354

: 00:19:47

But anyway, for those of you

listening in the United States, you

355

: 00:19:50

know, what a Cracker Jack boxes.

356

: 00:19:52

But but anyway, but the point is that

there, there's validation behind that

357

: 00:19:56

John: It's

358

: 00:19:56

Angie: that's really what it

359

: 00:19:57

John: right?

360

: 00:19:58

you have to pick.

361

: 00:19:59

Angie: get a prize.

362

: 00:20:00

John: Let's use a common example, kinder

eggs, where you get a little surprise

363

: 00:20:04

inside, like a coaching certificate.

364

: 00:20:07

Angie: Oh my gosh, that's hilarious.

365

: 00:20:09

Here, just sign this.

366

: 00:20:10

This is, your certification.

367

: 00:20:12

No, I did listen all joking aside.

368

: 00:20:14

I definitely think that

there are some more wrecking.

369

: 00:20:17

And listen, when you want to work for

some companies, there was a reason why

370

: 00:20:22

if you decide you don't want to be an

entrepreneur, or maybe you're going

371

: 00:20:24

to be a part time entrepreneur, and

you're going to work for a company.

372

: 00:20:28

If you look at what they require, one of

the requirements is probably going to be

373

: 00:20:33

some level of an ICF certification here.

374

: 00:20:38

And it's usually, professional

certification or better.

375

: 00:20:42

So there's that, the three

levels and that's the mid level.

376

: 00:20:45

So there's a reason why they want to

know That you at least know the baseline

377

: 00:20:51

of what coaching is supposed to look

like and what your behavior should

378

: 00:20:55

be This is not you're not friends.

379

: 00:20:57

You're not lovers.

380

: 00:20:58

You're not you know, like this

is a professional relationship,

381

: 00:21:03

John: Which is good.

382

: 00:21:05

Here's why I think there's maybe a

danger with some of these things is that

383

: 00:21:07

you get to the end of a certification,

you feel validated and it's all good

384

: 00:21:11

and you're ready to go out and move

professionally as a coach and feel

385

: 00:21:15

confident in that, which is great.

386

: 00:21:17

What's maybe not so great is

you feel that you know coaching.

387

: 00:21:21

I feel you really don't.

388

: 00:21:23

because it's an ongoing process.

389

: 00:21:25

And there's probably going to be

certifications that you'll want to

390

: 00:21:28

get that have no professional value,

but will have value to you and will

391

: 00:21:34

actually help you grow in your coaching.

392

: 00:21:35

So in that sense, they will have

professional value, but in terms

393

: 00:21:38

of recognition, probably not.

394

: 00:21:40

So you do have to look at things through

those times, which is why I said probably

395

: 00:21:44

would look at official certification.

396

: 00:21:46

First of all, as a coach

getting started now.

397

: 00:21:49

And some of the other growth, like the

learning development should be ongoing.

398

: 00:21:54

But how do you then discern between

the courses that are making some

399

: 00:21:59

amazing promises and offering you all

these good things that don't really

400

: 00:22:03

deliver and those that actually do.

401

: 00:22:05

I think that's where I struggled in

my journey of there weren't so many

402

: 00:22:10

ways to check out a lot of the places

where I was being sold or offered

403

: 00:22:15

opportunity and courses as there are now.

404

: 00:22:19

And so now I, you can do your

homework, but most people

405

: 00:22:22

Angie: absolutely Do it, do the

research, check the reviews, because

406

: 00:22:28

people are so, especially if we feel

like we got duped, if we feel like we

407

: 00:22:32

were taken advantage of in some way,

people are going to post about that.

408

: 00:22:35

You can do the research on what

the company says they offer on

409

: 00:22:38

their incredible website, but if

you research, their reviews, why

410

: 00:22:43

don't we check reviews on a couch?

411

: 00:22:45

But we don't check reviews on

somebody who we want to pay money

412

: 00:22:48

to make us better at what we do.

413

: 00:22:51

So I definitely agree with that 1000%.

414

: 00:22:54

It doesn't mean that you're going to

come out of it, Um, with maybe everything

415

: 00:22:58

that you expected, but also doing

nothing is not necessarily the answer

416

: 00:23:04

either, because you are going to be

flying blind, into for newer people,

417

: 00:23:09

newer coaches into the space of, well,

what makes you want to be a coach?

418

: 00:23:13

Well, somebody told me that I'm

really good at giving advice, really?

419

: 00:23:18

Well, I think you need

some, some training there.

420

: 00:23:21

Cause maybe you are.

421

: 00:23:22

Maybe you're great.

422

: 00:23:23

Maybe you're great coach, but yeah.

423

: 00:23:25

John: Here's a fun example that was

from, I think either last week or

424

: 00:23:29

the week before that I saw somebody

advertising or promoting themselves

425

: 00:23:33

as a neuroscience based coach,

a certified neuroscience coach.

426

: 00:23:39

And I thought, that has to be the most

bogus bullshit thing I've ever heard of.

427

: 00:23:43

So I thought, I need to look into this.

428

: 00:23:46

And so I started doing

some checking up on it.

429

: 00:23:48

And actually, it's

pretty, pretty authentic.

430

: 00:23:52

And it is actually guys, people

from a neuroscience background who

431

: 00:23:56

are helping people to understand

how neuroscience works in coaching.

432

: 00:24:01

It's pretty amazing.

433

: 00:24:02

And to apply knowledge in neuroscience

into the coaching world for more

434

: 00:24:06

therapeutic coaching than anything else.

435

: 00:24:08

I'd look at it and say, oh, that wouldn't

be for me, but it was interesting to

436

: 00:24:11

see, oh, it was worth taking a look and

saying, ah, that sounds really bullshit.

437

: 00:24:15

But actually

438

: 00:24:17

there was some, seems like there's

some really good value in it.

439

: 00:24:20

And if I was in my earlier

days of coaching, where I was

440

: 00:24:22

still sort of thinking, where

do I want to specialize into?

441

: 00:24:24

That could well be a path that I would go.

442

: 00:24:26

That's not to say there aren't a ton

of other stuff out there, that there's

443

: 00:24:30

a ton of stuff out there that is

444

: 00:24:31

Angie: Absolutely.

445

: 00:24:32

No, there definitely is, which

is why we're talking about this

446

: 00:24:35

John: would

447

: 00:24:35

Angie: because I think we've

seen that a lot along the

448

: 00:24:38

John: Would you get your

coaching certification from

449

: 00:24:40

Jay Shetty, for example?

450

: 00:24:43

Angie: Would I get one from Jay Shetty?

451

: 00:24:45

I love Jay Shetty.

452

: 00:24:46

Jay, what's up?

453

: 00:24:49

Um,

454

: 00:24:50

John: but.

455

: 00:24:51

Angie: but I'm saying like, I think

it depends on what that looks like.

456

: 00:24:54

I honestly, again, I have, A certification

from another big name and it was

457

: 00:25:00

probably like the second or third one

that I got because I was like, Ooh.

458

: 00:25:04

I had experienced that there

one of their weekend retreats

459

: 00:25:10

and I was really taken by it.

460

: 00:25:12

So I think I did it more out of

curiosity and then was like, Oh,

461

: 00:25:17

and by the way, I have this now.

462

: 00:25:19

I don't think it really, anybody who knows

anything about coaching is going to look

463

: 00:25:23

at that and go, Oh, she paid to play.

464

: 00:25:26

Did I get a lot out of it?

465

: 00:25:27

I did, but I could tell you, I

can tell you honest and true.

466

: 00:25:31

I don't know if any of

that has stuck with me.

467

: 00:25:33

I don't think there's anything that

I use from that because it wasn't, it

468

: 00:25:37

really wasn't it wasn't meant to be that.

469

: 00:25:40

It was like here's my name and

you're going to pay to use that.

470

: 00:25:43

And that's okay.

471

: 00:25:44

You know what?

472

: 00:25:44

I honor that.

473

: 00:25:45

It was part of my learning experience.

474

: 00:25:47

That was like 20 something years ago, so,

475

: 00:25:53

um,

476

: 00:25:54

John: would definitely say take a look.

477

: 00:25:55

I'm not saying there's no value to

a course like even for someone like

478

: 00:25:58

Jay Shetty, I wouldn't be a fan.

479

: 00:26:00

I probably wouldn't go that way.

480

: 00:26:01

But earlier on in my

coaching days, I would have.

481

: 00:26:04

I was probably a bit less

skeptical and quite naive, really.

482

: 00:26:08

And so I wouldn't have checked stuff

out as thoroughly as I would now.

483

: 00:26:13

Do check stuff out and make

sure it's right for you.

484

: 00:26:15

Even sometimes I say this was

one reason why I say go for the

485

: 00:26:18

official certification first.

486

: 00:26:20

It's going to make a bigger difference

to you if you're getting started.

487

: 00:26:22

But if you got that and you

just want to keep your learning

488

: 00:26:25

going, it doesn't really matter.

489

: 00:26:27

Those certifications are for

you more than for your clients

490

: 00:26:29

at this point to help you grow.

491

: 00:26:31

But if you feel that you're

going to get what you need from

492

: 00:26:33

those, then absolutely go for it.

493

: 00:26:35

And if you don't, take it up with

the companies and don't just accept

494

: 00:26:41

that you're receiving something.

495

: 00:26:42

Less than what maybe has

been promised to you.

496

: 00:26:45

Because certainly there's a

lot of that out there as well.

497

: 00:26:48

But I feel like there are less

scammy coaching stuff out there.

498

: 00:26:52

Now, in terms of these sorts

of sales, I could be wrong.

499

: 00:26:56

Angie: Well, I just think that

there's more like we said there's

500

: 00:26:58

more ability To research it.

501

: 00:27:01

There's more ability to come back and

maybe you know getting a bad review is

502

: 00:27:05

bad, you know again, you can get one bad

review It doesn't mean that everything

503

: 00:27:09

about it is bad, but I think your point

is extremely important If you're going

504

: 00:27:14

to get one get one that's overarching

You know, get one that is really more

505

: 00:27:20

recognized, well known reputation because

you're going to get from that and the

506

: 00:27:26

recognition of the public is going

to be in place there for you as well.

507

: 00:27:32

And then anything you do beyond that,

kind of what I said earlier, it really

508

: 00:27:36

should be like why do I need this?

509

: 00:27:38

Ask yourself, why do I want this?

510

: 00:27:40

What's the benefit for myself?

511

: 00:27:42

What's the benefit for future clients?

512

: 00:27:44

And if you can answer that and

say this is, I, it's going to help

513

: 00:27:47

me do X, Y, or Z then do it, but

514

: 00:27:50

something more formal,

515

: 00:27:51

John: at

516

: 00:27:51

Angie: is a great place to start.

517

: 00:27:54

John: what, what's going to help

you get where you want to get.

518

: 00:27:56

And so if you are heading down a pathway

and maybe still figuring out niche and

519

: 00:28:01

still getting stuff off the ground.

520

: 00:28:04

Then probably a coaching

certification like we've talked

521

: 00:28:08

about would be great for you.

522

: 00:28:09

If you're ready to niche or you pretty

much know what you're doing and you're

523

: 00:28:12

not really looking to work with a coaching

company or inside a larger corporation,

524

: 00:28:16

then you may not need that stuff.

525

: 00:28:18

So look at what you do need to be able

to get the results and go on the journey

526

: 00:28:22

that you want to go on as a coach.

527

: 00:28:24

And so that's probably the main stuff

you need to be considering here.

528

: 00:28:28

When it comes to certifications,

because ultimately they're just

529

: 00:28:31

bits of paper that go on the wall.

530

: 00:28:33

Otherwise,

531

: 00:28:34

Angie: agree.

532

: 00:28:35

Ten thousand percent.

533

: 00:28:37

This was fun.

534

: 00:28:39

John: it's a valuable, it's

a valuable conversation.

535

: 00:28:41

And yeah I feel like yourself,

I feel happy with my journey.

536

: 00:28:44

Some stuff I got more

value from than others.

537

: 00:28:46

Some stuff has spent a

lot more money on them.

538

: 00:28:48

Perhaps I wish I had looking back.

539

: 00:28:50

However, I learned my

lessons and come out.

540

: 00:28:53

Relatively unscathed.

541

: 00:28:55

Angie: Agreed.

542

: 00:28:57

John: yeah, things are better now.

543

: 00:28:59

We'd love to hear from you.

544

: 00:29:00

What are your thoughts on

coaching certifications?

545

: 00:29:02

What questions do you have that

maybe we didn't get around to

546

: 00:29:04

in this particular episode?

547

: 00:29:06

And what questions do

you have for the future?

548

: 00:29:08

We're going to be getting into what

happens inside coaching sessions as well.

549

: 00:29:12

As we go on this journey together.

550

: 00:29:14

So we hope you'll come

back and join us for that.

551

: 00:29:15

But

552

: 00:29:16

if You want

553

: 00:29:16

to

554

: 00:29:16

get in touch with us,

555

: 00:29:17

Angie: are definitely juicy.

556

: 00:29:19

John: you don't want to miss

those, but do leave us a message.

557

: 00:29:22

You can leave us a voicemail at speakpipe.

558

: 00:29:24

com forward slash the coaching

clinic podcast, this all one word.

559

: 00:29:27

You'll find the link for

that in the show notes.

560

: 00:29:30

Do you leave us a voicemail and we

might just feature you on the show.

561

: 00:29:33

Angie, that's pretty

much it for us this week.

562

: 00:29:35

So shall we come back and do it again next

563

: 00:29:37

time?

564

: 00:29:37

Angie: definitely think we should.

565

: 00:29:39

You be well.

566

: 00:29:41

John: Bye.