Mastering Discovery Calls for Coaches
Mastering Discovery Calls: Building Trust and Assessing Client Fit
In this episode, Angie and John delve into the intricacies of conducting successful discovery or triage calls with prospective clients.
They discuss the importance of initial questionnaires to set the stage, the differences between discovery and triage calls, and share best practices for building rapport without coming off as too personal or salesy.
They emphasize the significance of gauging client coachability, commitment, and ability to afford services. Additionally, they touch upon the pitfalls of offering payment plans and share their experiences with client follow-through and building trust.
The episode wraps up with a teaser for the next topic: how to effectively challenge clients to ensure they’re taking actionable steps towards their goals.
00:00 The Art of Landing a Client: A Candid Conversation
01:08 Navigating Discovery Calls: Strategies and Insights
01:46 Pre-Call Preparation: The Key to Effective Coaching
04:06 The Dynamics of a Successful Discovery Call
06:26 Understanding Client Needs and Coachability
11:26 The Emotional Landscape of Coaching Calls
12:52 Ethics and Techniques in Coaching
16:25 Criteria for a Successful Coaching Relationship
18:15 Navigating Sales and Pricing Strategies
19:33 Addressing Payment Concerns and Strategies
19:55 The Impact of Payment Plans on Program Integrity
21:39 Exploring Client Commitment and Program Value
29:51 The Importance of Trust in Coaching Relationships
32:02 Reflecting on Personal Confidence and Client Satisfaction
35:13 Looking Ahead: Challenges and Client Engagement
Do you have a question or some feedback for John & Angie? You can leave us a free voicemail by going to https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast and we might just feature you on the show.
Transcript
Angie,
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:Angie: John.
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:John: I've got a call coming up
with a prospective client and
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:I really want to land this one.
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:What should I say?
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:Angie: Well, normally I'd say just be
yourself, but you're a special case, John.
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:John: Oh, thank you.
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:Angie: Okay.
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:You took that as a compliment.
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:Yeah, sure.
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:We'll go with that.
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:John: Do you think they'll be impressed
if I tell them I have a podcast?
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:Angie: Maybe.
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:Why don't you try that and let
me know how you get on with it.
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:John: Okay, then.
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:Well, let's start the show.
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:Angie, I love this topic because
I know that one of the things that
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:people sometimes get stuck on before
they've even got their clients is
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:what you say to them when you're on
those discovery calls or the triage
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:calls as we sometimes refer to them.
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:Is there a difference
between discovery and triage?
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:Because there is.
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:And I really want to get into that.
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:What do you say?
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:What do you not say?
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:Are you, how do you know if you're
being salesy or pushy or things like
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:that, what are the things that could
make you come off really bad or
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:things will help you be really good.
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:So this is a really fun
and interesting topic.
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:Tell me a bit about what you do in
your prospect lead's journey into
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:becoming clients on those first calls.
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:So let me just pause for one second
and take a half a step backwards.
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:Cause I don't know if we talked about
this, but you know, if I'm getting in
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:touch with people, whether they found me
somehow where they were referred to me.
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:Before I even get on a call with them
at all, they will fill out It's like a
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:five question questionnaire, basically,
and it's just, it's baseline folks.
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:It's, why coaching?
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:Why now?
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:What are you looking
to get out of coaching?
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:What are your biggest
challenges at the moment?
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:Because when I get on that
call, I want to have some
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:indication as to what's going on.
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:And I've had people challenge me and
say, really, who wants to do that?
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:And I'm like anybody who is seriously
considering taking on a coach.
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:They love sharing that information.
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:Actually, they love to do that I've never
ever had anybody push back and say, oh,
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:no, I don't want that I'm, not filling
anything out because it's not cold.
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:It's not like Oh, I sent an email and
said here fill out these questions and
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:maybe I try to get them to talk to me
Then these are people that have already
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:contacted me So I at least have a
baseline You So that's my very first step.
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:I don't know if you do anything
different before the call
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:John: what you're saying sounds remarkably
like a triage call, which is what I
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:would do instead, which is a 10 minutes
or less version of pre discovery where
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:I really want to find out though why me?
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:Why now?
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:Exactly what you're saying,
what's actually going on for you.
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:Set that scene for this is to find
out if I'm gonna be a fit for you
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:and if you're gonna be a fit for me.
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:And if I am, great.
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:I'm gonna, we can set up the call to
talk about that and how that works.
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:And if I'm not, I'm gonna try
and point you to where I think
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:you can get some better help
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:Angie: so yeah, I think what I do is a
bit of that but you know again my and my
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:I call it a discovery call because before
that call they've already filled it out
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:If they do not fill it out, I literally
will say, do we need to reschedule?
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:I would like this information
before we actually talk.
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:This is an important part of the process.
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:I've had to cancel and reschedule
and I'm okay with that.
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:In the beginning I think I was
a little like Oh, do I do that?
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:What if I lose them?
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:But again, I think serious
clients or prospective clients
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:are like Oh yeah, I forgot.
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:Let me get to that.
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:When I get on that call it is scheduled
for, I used to do actually 60 minutes
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:if you can imagine, but somebody had
recommended that to me and I thought,
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:it just ended up, it was just too long.
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:so I cut it down to 30 minutes and
I think the mistake a lot of new
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:coaches make, I see you smiling,
you know what I'm going to say.
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:It's like they go right into
the, Oh my gosh, hi, how are you?
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:Where are you?
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:And they get into these niceties that.
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:Because they're trying, they're nervous,
they want the sale, and they're trying
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:to build rapport on a personal level
instead of on a professional level.
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:And that is a big, hey,
hello, can you hear me?
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:Big fat no no.
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:I'm not saying get on and go,
okay, what are you doing here?
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:Let's talk about this.
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:That's not what I'm saying.
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:But, That's not how you
build rapport, right?
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:It's it's
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:quick and sweet.
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:John: My marketing coach guide guru
this guy called Taki Moore and some
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:coaches would have heard of him.
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:And he says any two people are
excited to get on the phone with
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:you or on a zoom call with you.
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:And that's like friends
or family or salespeople.
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:So you don't want to be either of those
when you come in and say, so if you
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:bring in, you do want to bring in some
good energy, but if you bring it in
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:too high, you're already setting up.
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:Hey, we are gonna be
really great friends here.
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:This is really good energy.
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:Look how good my energy is.
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:And yeah they know what you're
setting them up for straight away.
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:Angie: yeah.
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:So, it's really, literally it's a
minute of, Hey, John, I'm so glad
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:that we were getting to meet today.
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:I'm excited to talk about all
the things that you mentioned.
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:How are you?
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:You ready?
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:Are you excited?
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:And then, yeah, okay.
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:And then I'll get into
what they shared with me.
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:And I start at baseline.
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:I do not go into this.
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:I have personally a criteria
that I want to fill.
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:And it is based on that
questionnaire really first and
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:foremost is like, why are you here?
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:Why do you think coaching
might be a good fit for you?
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:And one of my other questions is,
have you ever had coaching before?
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:Because I want to know what
that experience was like,
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:if they had a good one.
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:Or if they had a bad one and if they had
a bad experience or one where they didn't
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:feel like They got anything from it.
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:I need to know why because
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:that
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:is going to
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:tell me what they're looking for.
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:Yeah
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:John: when I was doing some sales
work with a podcast training company
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:that was one of the things that
ended up becoming very relevant
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:in a lot of the conversations
that I was having with people.
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:Because they had tried other things and
often had less than good experiences.
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:And that's, it's really good to
know that before they come in,
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:what was the experience you had?
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:It helps us to distinguish or
differentiate ourselves from
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:those bad experiences as well.
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:And make sure that we can set the right
tone environment ambience, whatever it
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:is that our Perspective clients need to
have and get to say, all right, this is
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:somewhere where they're not try hard.
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:They're not overdoing it.
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:And, but they're providing
a level of trust and service
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:that I can feel happy with and
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:confident.
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:Angie: well and also too and I think
Again, if somebody says that they've
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:and I don't mean to beat this but
it's just coming into my head Home if
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:somebody does come in or they do share
at some point that they didn't have
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:a great experience That is not your
opportunity to a beat down that company
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:or person Or b start puffing yourself up
and going well, I would never do that.
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:Well, you'll get so much more from
this experience Cut it out Stop that
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:is not the answer what you want to
do is coach around that essentially
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:when you're in a discovery call You've
actually begun coaching with them.
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:That's how that call should be set up.
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:It's not just Q& A It's
not just like interview.
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:It's let me think about whether there's
rapport here Is this person coachable?
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:What questions run through your mind
when you're trying to decide and I
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:don't know maybe I don't know how you
do it Do you even look at it and say?
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:Is this person a right fit for
the type of coaching that I do?
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:Do you look at that?
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:Are you objective?
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:John: I do.
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:Yeah, I want to know what is
going on for them right now.
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:Why not just Oh, well, now it just
feels like the right time or my
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:problems have been mounting up.
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:I just don't know why,
what's going on right now.
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:You want to not be going on
into the future, or you want
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:to change.
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:I
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:want to get that.
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:I do, because it is so important in
terms of their leverage and how they're
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:going to show up in the program as well.
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:If the coaching, I often talk
about this sort of principle of
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:something being nice to have and
something being a need to have.
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:If it's just a sort of, oh got money
to put into some coaching we thought
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:we'd get some coaching from you.
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:Great.
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:Well, how effective is
it really going to be?
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:You're not particularly leveraged today.
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:You don't have any outcomes in mind.
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:Sure we can work to turn that
around and get some outcomes and
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:get you more leveraged into it.
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:But how much more effective is it
going to be if you're launching
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:into it with that in mind?
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:That you have the enthusiasm
and ready to go and you're
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:highly leveraged to make change.
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:Angie: Yeah, I think that's where
that coachable piece comes in.
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:I've had a couple, I would say less
than a handful, to be honest, of
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:clients that were not coachable.
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:And I think I have fired
one or two clients.
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:I know for a fact there's one,
but I think there might be two
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:that I'm just not recalling.
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:Maybe it was so bad that I put it outta
my head maybe, you have to be coachable.
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:It's like getting on a baseball
team or a football team and
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:showing up to practice and saying,
no, I'm not doing those drills.
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:I'm not having, I'm not doing
what You're off the team.
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:So it's kind of the same for us.
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:It's really not much different.
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:So that's like first and foremost
for me is if could, because my
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:feeling as a coach is this, if they
are coachable, as long as they are
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:coachable, then I feel like I can do
work with them, even if it takes longer.
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:Even if they really don't know
what they don't know yet and they
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:just feel like, I don't know, and
I've had people come in, right?
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:I don't know.
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:I'm not sure.
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:I just know I feel like there's
more, I'm not sure what it is.
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:I love that.
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:That's an onion and a half.
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:Peel that baby back, you know.
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:John: I do.
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:You're just making me think.
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:Oh, like some of the workshops
I've been running recently.
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:And I've had people turning
up who have just been yeah,
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:I'm just going to listen in.
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:I'm not actually going to participate.
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:Well, thanks for coming!
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:Angie: I will spit out my
water all over the screen.
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:Thanks, John.
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:You're like, oh, you're
just gonna sit on the bench.
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:Okay.
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:John: But how many people are
doing their life like that?
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:They're sometimes going through
whole coaching programs or whatever,
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:especially if it's a group or it's an
online program, just playing through the
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:stuff and not taking any action on it.
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:It's like, why, why even show up?
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:Why not if you're not gonna participate
Just listen to a replay of the call, why
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:show up, especially, and then why say,
and why say I'm just going to listen,
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:it's well, you're very welcome to do that.
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:I just don't really see
what the point is of that.
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:They're really just half in it, right?
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:They're not
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:Angie: Down.
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:John: and and that, that
gives me concern for them for
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:getting results.
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:Angie: I've also had scenarios, and
this just popped into my head, and
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:maybe it's not necessarily where
we were planning on going today.
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:But I actually have had also a handful
of clients or less That have come
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:into a discovery call and within three
minutes, they're crying And they're very
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:upset and they're very emotional and
as I dig and I give them space because
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:I also know that sometimes when you
come into coaching, it's like, there's
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:this release valve, like somebody
took the top off the pressure cooker.
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:However, I'm listening really hard in
that moment because there were a couple
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:of clients that I said to them, I
do believe in coaching for anybody.
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:I believe in it.
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:Wholeheartedly, however, have you ever
considered like therapy and I'm careful
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:because I don't want to insult anybody
because you know Some people really are
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:offended They you know, they think that
you think they're crazy and that's not
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:it That's not what therapy is for and
i've urged them to either start with
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:some therapy first or they need to do it
maybe supplement, you know at the same
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:time because I don't do that as a coach.
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:And if I can't get them out of the
crying scene, I know there's something
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:really, what are you smiling about?
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:There's something really
deep seated going on.
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:What is going on over there in Spain?
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:John: I just wanted to ask you a question.
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:It's tangential, but It's important
and it's on my brain because I've
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:heard some people, coaches, bragging
about this apparent ability that they
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:have to have prospective clients or
clients in tiers within a couple of
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:minutes on a coaching call because
they know the right questions.
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:So I was like, I'm thinking,
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:how much of a, how much
of a skill is that?
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:I've hardly ever had situations where my
clients have been in tears and I don't,
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:feel like I'm any less of a coach because
of it and yet I see people bragging that
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:they can have their clients crying within
minutes of a coaching call and I just
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:think I'm not sure that's something to
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:Angie: no.
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:That is just dirty work.
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:So let me say this.
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:A, just to be clear to our listeners,
that was not what I did as a coach.
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:It was just people were coming in
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:feeling so like, yeah, let me
just be clear that that was not
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:an intention to have that happen.
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:But I'm so glad you brought that up.
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:I literally had a coach I was in a
training with this person actually,
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:and it was just something that
we were, effectively something
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:that we were doing together.
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:We didn't know each other initially.
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:And through conversation, I guess
they got to know one piece of me.
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:And so it was their turn to coach me.
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:They went straight to
the mother questions.
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:And I was very emotional and why because
they had figured out again through
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:conversation and things in the room that
I had just lost my mom, like literally
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:two months before three months before.
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:So when we went into our coaching session,
this person went straight for that
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:jugular and I was pissed because I didn't
need at that moment to be coached on my
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:mom sorry, the abrasion is still open.
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:But you went there and it was like
this really deep question like oh, so
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:you know, what was that relationship?
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:Did you have the
relationship with your mom?
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:Do you have any regrets?
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:You son of a bleep.
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:I'm like, really?
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:That's where we're going?
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:No.
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:Uh uh.
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:So I've had that be done to me.
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:And I'm going to say to people,
don't make that an intention.
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:Okay.
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:John: especially not on your discovery
calls or triage calls You may get
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:you may get people who come on and
are a bit emotional Maybe there's
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:something that they've been really
wanting to do with for a bit of time
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:But it's not your job to make them cry.
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:My position is this if they come
on and they're emotional give them
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:the space and let them know it's
okay It's like yeah, feel free.
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:Let it all out.
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:There's no judgment here take as, take
as long as you need, but it's not my
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:job to get them into that state or to
ask them the questions that are going
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:to let's, let's rub some salts on this
and let's have you in tears that I
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:don't see it as being an achievement.
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:So, I want people to have the space
to have whatever emotions that they're
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:having and to know that that's okay.
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:And then
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:we talk, but
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:Angie: I love that you brought
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:that up because it is an intentionality.
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:Now that you bring that up, I do know of
people that, that is a, that's a tactic.
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:That's a tool.
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:And I'm, I'm not a believer in it at all.
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:Because I feel like you also,
you're opening yourself up
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:to They don't need coaching.
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:They need therapy.
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:And like, what are you doing?
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:You know,
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:like, come on.
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:John: may vary.
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:And look if you, if someone's out there
who disagrees with us, let us know.
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:And let us know why.
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:'cause we're, we're not so close-minded
that we won't listen to other opinions.
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:This is just our take from our experience.
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:We happen to agree.
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:But
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:So I think for me, there's a certain
criteria that I am looking for, right?
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:When I'm doing a discovery call
is the first, like I said, is
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:really, are they coachable?
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:That's like the first thing.
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:Are they coachable?
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:And the second thing that I look for is,
are they able, are they, cause I asked
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:them this, all right, we've talked about
this, this, and this, and we've identified
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:some areas of growth opportunity.
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:Okay.
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:And then it's, but are you
committed to the journey?
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:In front of you, right?
343
:And I get them to I get that buy in
and it's not the sales thing It's just
344
:are you willing to do what it takes
to get you where you need to be next?
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:And the last thing is can they afford it?
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:That's a big piece of it
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:John: do like the idea of having,
you have your questionnaire.
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:triage call.
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:That's how I prefer to do it.
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:Although I like, I'm open to
the questionnaire thing as well.
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:I think you can even do some level of that
triage thing in chat, online chat as well.
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:It doesn't have to, it's not like
you need a level of rapport where
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:you have to be there in person.
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:You could probably even do it by, actually
I've had it done to me by voice messages.
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:I know when I went into a Chris
Ducker program, it was all voice
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:messaging me and Chris on Instagram.
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:Before, before I signed up.
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:So there is a bunch of ways you can
do this that don't necessarily mean
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:you have to be on a zoom meeting
or a phone call or whatever else.
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:So do what, maybe try some different
ones and see what fits best for you
361
:and what works best for your potential
clients as well, because maybe they
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:have a preference and tendency as
to what works really well for them.
363
:But I do like the principle of having
something pre to get a sense of
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:qualifying you in the first instance.
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:Do we want to go on and have
that longer call with you?
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:Because the longer call is all right.
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:Well, here's the logistics.
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:Here's what it actually looks like.
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:Here's the pricing.
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:Here's the, all of it.
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:And the different levels, if you
have different levels of the program,
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:which one's going to be right for you.
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:But I do agree.
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:You need to get a sense.
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:And I, for me the red flag, if
you like, of, If, do they have
376
:an issue paying for this is if
they keep asking how much it is.
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:And so at that point it's like my answer
is going to be a very much from my sales
378
:background or saying, okay, if you keep
asking me how much it is, I'm just going
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:to ask you, is there an issue around
paying that we should address now?
380
:Are you concerned about not being able to
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:Angie: Right.
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:Yeah.
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:I,
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:this is where I, why you and I do this.
385
:I literally ask in a, in kind of
a similar question, but, are you
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:prepared for this level of coaching?
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:Are you prepared?
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:Like, and if it, if this, if the dollar
amount comes up, if it's the question
389
:keeps coming up, I will ask, are you
able to pay for this level of coaching?
390
:Especially if they will refer to me
because then they pretty much know.
391
:That the person that referred them knows
what I you know what I charge I don't
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:tell people don't tell anybody what I
charge you because my fees are my fees.
393
:That's the bottom line so I don't know
like I I get into that and if they're not
394
:You know, I guess this is maybe a whole
separate conversation we could have around
395
:Do you allow people to
make payment structure?
396
:You know, lump sums.
397
:I mean, that's a business choice.
398
:I think it's not one that I engage
in I my fees are paid up front.
399
:It is not paid over time And that's
it and that might mean they might
400
:take on maybe less than that It's 12
sessions because they can afford half
401
:of it, but again, I don't like that.
402
:I just feel like it takes
away from the integrity of
403
:the program that I'm offering.
404
:So if I'm saying, Hey, it's
12 sessions is the program and
405
:they go I can only afford six.
406
:What happens to the other six?
407
:Then if I say, if I allow them to do
that, I'm essentially saying the other
408
:six really aren't that important.
409
:John: It is maybe.
410
:I don't know if it's the whole
episode's worth, but it is
411
:something that's worth discussing.
412
:I have had enough encounters in programs
where there have been people who've been
413
:able to pay in full, and then there've
been people who are on payment plans.
414
:They have to pay up front.
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:But then some issue comes
up with their payment.
416
:Maybe they're on a Two pay three pay
four pay depending on what kind of
417
:program they're in And at some point
an issue comes up with their payment
418
:and they generally end up Not following
through not getting the rest of the
419
:program It happens, it probably happens
more than any of us would like, and,
420
:it's, my, my take on it is, on this,
is this, it feels unfair to the people
421
:who've been able to pay in full,
422
:that they get the whole thing, and
that some people have been able to
423
:get half of that, for half the price
when you don't offer half a program,
424
:and, It's a risk that you run.
425
:So if you do that, you're always
going to have that risk of people
426
:may not finish your program.
427
:They may not make the payments and it
generally, not always, but generally
428
:isn't worth going after those payments.
429
:And it just,
430
:it gets a bit ugly.
431
:Angie: it does.
432
:I just don't love it.
433
:Honestly.
434
:It's just, you know, I I might even
say something to them like well
435
:listen maybe this just isn't the
right time because it's all a part
436
:of it I still own a business if I go
into a restaurant and I want to go
437
:to a five star restaurant instead of
Denny's I don't know if you know if
438
:you have that in Spain or in the UK but
439
:um okay
440
:so you know the difference right if I can
441
:John: it'd be like, uh, Little chef in the
442
:uk.
443
:Yeah.
444
:Angie: yeah okay so that yeah so
if you want to go to a five star
445
:restaurant And eat the best of the
best you need to be really prepared and
446
:I do put my yes Yes, I am saying it.
447
:I am the five star coach
448
:John: Okay.
449
:Angie: but but
450
:truthfully It just may not be the time
and maybe you save this and you put this
451
:on the side burner and you actually work
toward It or save for it something like
452
:that I tell people I'm not going anywhere,
it's fine, I'm not going anywhere.
453
:You'll know where to find me
when the time is right for you.
454
:It's okay.
455
:John: It's all good if you have
different offerings of program as well.
456
:That's one of the things that
I would rather consider having
457
:something that was more available.
458
:If I had lots of instances where people
weren't able to afford the full program.
459
:I think maybe I should have
something that's a lower entry point
460
:for people that they can afford.
461
:There isn't the bells and whistles
of the full program, but still
462
:gives them something, some value
that they can manage for now.
463
:And they're in your world more,
they're still learning from
464
:you and getting value from you.
465
:There's more encouragement and
you can then encourage them
466
:to upgrade towards the end.
467
:I think that can be a good way
to go, but it's always essential.
468
:Sometimes you just want to
have one product and have your
469
:clients and deal with it that
way and get the clients you want.
470
:If you wanna offer payment
plans, try it out for yourself.
471
:But you know, you've been warned
They're not always, they're
472
:not always fun and easy to do.
473
:And trying to catch up with
recalcitrant clients is not always easy.
474
:Going after the money that they do owe
because they have bought a whole program.
475
:but that's not always fun.
476
:Angie: Oh, and yeah, and also, I,
it's, I actually have had people say,
477
:well, can I pay as I go, things like,
I don't, I just don't love any of that.
478
:Because you as the person end up
chasing, chasing, chasing, and I'm
479
:not interested in that chase and it
has to be in advance of in advance of
480
:the sessions.
481
:John: I know people who've done
pay what you think it's worth.
482
:Angie: What the hell is that?
483
:How do you know what it's
worth until you've done it?
484
:And that's the thing, right?
485
:Because you, listen, let's be fair to
somebody who doesn't know any better.
486
:I recently engaged with a company.
487
:Recently in the last couple of years
that was a lead generating company
488
:if I told you the amount you would
fall over and the show would be
489
:over promises and I had vetted them.
490
:I had done all the work.
491
:I had compared I had been doing I've
been looking for something like six
492
:months I spent and I have to tell you I
bought into the value that was promised
493
:There was of course the guarantee space
And I did not end up finishing it.
494
:It would have cost me 25, 000 if I had
finished out the year, and I did not.
495
:And I have to be honest with
you, it really reminded me.
496
:that the value, I know
the value of what I offer.
497
:I know the value of what those sessions
look like and what the bit, the smaller
498
:bits turn into, like the, how they
turn into the bigger nuggets and really
499
:transform lives literally transform lives.
500
:It's not woo woo.
501
:You guys have been listening for a minute.
502
:You know, I'm not that coach.
503
:That's like, Oh, everybody
just needs to feel good.
504
:No, you need to do the work.
505
:You need to.
506
:You want to change?
507
:Well, guess what?
508
:You want to grow?
509
:You need to change.
510
:And I'm that person.
511
:But I know that I can offer that.
512
:And it's very hard for the person
on the other side to see that.
513
:Because they've probably not
experienced that kind of transformation.
514
:To them, it is still not even possible.
515
:So, I get it, but,
516
:John: I have a thing on this as well.
517
:I've maybe mentioned before, when I
first saw trained in NLP and stuff,
518
:I started off doing try smoking
cessations, because I thought that
519
:could be a good niche to get into.
520
:Even though I was, I think I
was still smoking at the time.
521
:Angie: you
522
:John: Yeah, yeah, I used to smoke.
523
:I, yeah, I used to smoke.
524
:Can you believe it?
525
:Angie: No!
526
:John: I only, only after sex,
527
:but
528
:Angie: So what,
529
:John: so just, just, 20 a day.
530
:Angie: Full of crap.
531
:Okay, oh my god, my face is
red, if you could all see me.
532
:John: I thought it could
be a really fun niche.
533
:And and I think I was trying
to quit myself at the time.
534
:And one of the things I realized
very early on, people need to
535
:be leveraged with it as well.
536
:They do the hypnosis.
537
:I'm, True is out for me on
the effectiveness of hypnosis.
538
:But I feel that it's one of those
things that, if you've spent a
539
:thousand bucks, pounds, euros,
540
:whatever, or more, on a smoking
cessation, you really want it to work.
541
:Angie: right,
542
:John: You're invested in it working,
and some part of your brain's
543
:going, I've just spent a thousand
bucks on this, it needs to work.
544
:Angie: Then?
545
:John: Similarly with coaching as
well, you invest in a 10, 000 coaching
546
:program or more or less, however more,
but you know, hopefully new high value
547
:coaching program you invested in that
you should be leveraged to make it work.
548
:If you're not really all in, you're
not really leveraged to make it work.
549
:That's my take.
550
:Angie: I don't disagree.
551
:I think too, this is funny, and I
don't know why, I feel like, not
552
:that the more people spend, the more
intentional they are, the more they
553
:show up, the better they are as clients,
but there's a bigger risk involved,
554
:and they take it more seriously.
555
:When I was in my, and I don't know
if it was because I was in my earlier
556
:days, but, when I didn't charge
what I charge now, I've worked up to
557
:what I charge now, and when I wasn't
charging that It was a really easy
558
:to fill those spots really easy.
559
:And what didn't dawn on me at
the time was because I wasn't
560
:charging enough for the benefit.
561
:So now I might get less clients,
but I'm actually making more money.
562
:Even though, I was doing, I was
probably charging, slightly over
563
:a hundred dollars a session.
564
:And then if it was a package, obviously
do that times 12 and it was like, wow.
565
:But there is a little bit of the mindset
out there for some people too, where
566
:like you do get what you pay for.
567
:And I'm not saying that there aren't
great coaches out there that don't
568
:maybe charge what I charge or what
you charge or something like that.
569
:Yeah.
570
:But, steakhouse, Denny's.
571
:John: there, there's a big difference.
572
:I think it's not just about us
knowing that we have the right
573
:clients and that they can afford it.
574
:We really want them to know they
have the right coach as well.
575
:And so we want to be able to help them
get clear on not only are they talking
576
:our language and that the exact things
that we can help them with, which is why
577
:this whole niching thing is so important.
578
:They've already come to us as someone
who can help them, whether that's
579
:through referral or through our marketing
materials or podcast episodes or
580
:whatever it is that we're putting out,
they've already come to us with that
581
:expectation, we want to help them really
know that they're in the right place.
582
:If we feel that they are,
it's like, yeah, you're okay.
583
:Everything you're saying
to me brings truth.
584
:The problems you come to stuff that I help
with The reason you come to me, great.
585
:We've been referred by someone
who I work with already.
586
:So we like and trust, or you really
like the content that I've been
587
:putting out in other places, great.
588
:And your leverage to work
on this and get a solution.
589
:I would love to have a longer call with
you where we're going to go into a bit
590
:more of what that's going to look like.
591
:And that's going to be the call
where we're going to finalize
592
:everything.
593
:Angie: I think you just hit the
nail on the head, though, too.
594
:There has to be, on our end, we have an
obligation, I think, of sorts to build
595
:trust in that first discovery call.
596
:As we are figuring out whether
they're a good fit for us and we
597
:for them, I think the other side of
it is that we need to take on that
598
:mindset that they need to trust me.
599
:They need to they have to put the faith
in to me and what I'm about to offer them.
600
:And it's I think it's important.
601
:I think I've I am able
to do it pretty quickly.
602
:Build that trust It's not just building
rapport like oh Angie's so nice.
603
:Well, you don't want nice angie You
want the edgy that's going to kick you
604
:in the tail once in a while lovingly
and respectfully always i'm never
605
:disrespectful But I call out any of my
clients that you know that have been with
606
:me they'll tell you like this is what
she does and this is how she does it You
607
:And they have to trust in that process.
608
:They have to have trust in me.
609
:And I think that's more of what
they're initially signing on for is
610
:like, do I feel like this is true?
611
:Do I feel like there is trust?
612
:I think that's huge.
613
:John: Do you feel for yourself that
that really stems from your own
614
:trust and confidence in yourself and
your abilities more than anything
615
:else?
616
:Angie: I'm thinking, no,
I don't, I don't know.
617
:Ask that question a different way.
618
:John: Do you feel like your potential
clients or customers being able to have
619
:trust and confidence in you is an effect
of your own level of trust and confidence?
620
:Angie: I'm not connecting
that dot, honestly.
621
:You
622
:John: do you think that comes from then?
623
:Where do you, I feel for me, it's
some, at least to some degree, I feel
624
:like it is if I don't, if I don't
have that belief in myself and my
625
:product and my outcome for them that
I can help them achieve the outcome
626
:then it's a no.
627
:So
628
:Angie: Yes.
629
:Okay.
630
:John: A mixture a mixture of it comes
from validation of experience as well
631
:But that all has is stuff that has built
up my confidence and my trust in my
632
:capability as a coach
633
:Angie: Yes.
634
:Yes.
635
:Yes.
636
:Yes.
637
:Yes.
638
:Only backtrack.
639
:Yes I think it's mostly from that.
640
:I don't know what the hell the
disconnect was there for me But I
641
:just still early in the morning for
642
:John: So we've had a bit of a turnaround
there Let's let's see if we can also
643
:come up with a question to make you
cry angie And then we'll be two for
644
:Angie: Yeah.
645
:No, I think that my confidence
level is you know You It's very high
646
:because I've had such as a high, my
experience has been that I've had a
647
:high success rate with helping people
move the needle forward and whatever.
648
:Whatever it is that they're looking,
even the things that they weren't
649
:looking for, that to me is the beauty.
650
:But so yes, I definitely think
that that trust is connected:
651
:For sure.
652
:Yeah.
653
:It's
654
:A surgery scenario.
655
:If I, get a second opinion,
I need to have surgery.
656
:I need to trust that the person that's
cutting me open is confident that they can
657
:fix or, the bleed or the problem or like
whatever it is for, I have to trust them
658
:because it is almost out of my control.
659
:So coaching is obviously a little
bit different because so much of
660
:it does rely on the participation
of the client, but it's still this
661
:feeling of I'm putting faith in this.
662
:I'm trusting this process that
something is going to come out.
663
:And I do check ins, by
the way, with my clients.
664
:Because I don't want
665
:to assume that.
666
:they,
667
:They're loving it just
because they show up.
668
:John: I generally do that yeah.
669
:I have checkin points with
them usually around, around
670
:the time that renewal comes up.
671
:Angie: Oh
672
:John: But I should probably do
it, I should probably do it a bit
673
:more often than that, right?
674
:Angie: My, okay.
675
:We're not with John.
676
:You and I need to talk after this.
677
:Perhaps you need a coaching session.
678
:I do it around the
679
:John: I think I do.
680
:Angie: What?
681
:John: I like to, I check in with people
regularly, but I know I have an official
682
:check in with them about Really about
the satisfaction they have from the
683
:coaching and whether they'd like to
continue that we have to have that
684
:conversation when renewal comes up is
that we need to know I do you have the
685
:value in the program to make it worth
your renewal and Would there be any reason
686
:for you not to want to at this
687
:Angie: How did we get here?
688
:Gosh, we went from like
discovery call all the way
689
:through to this, which is great.
690
:I do check ins at the halfway point.
691
:If they buy a program halfway
and I'm very open about it.
692
:I asked them like, what did what
are you getting the most out of?
693
:And it's more because I want to really.
694
:I want to make sure that they're
just not excited because it's
695
:a great conversation with Angie
that's not what I'm looking for.
696
:And I will ask them, do you feel
like you need to be challenged more?
697
:You know what I mean?
698
:Like I actually bring the question
to them so they can think about it
699
:because they may not be thinking
about being challenged more.
700
:And I say, and if I did challenge you
more, what would that look like for you?
701
:Because i'm always thinking like
how do I get them to a higher space?
702
:Yeah, I don't know how we got
here, but it's interesting, right?
703
:John: No.
704
:But let's talk about that
more on our next episode.
705
:How do we challenge people?
706
:How do we poke the bear in the
right way that's respectful and gets
707
:people moving and taking action?
708
:What do we actually say in
these coaching sessions?
709
:What's the right way to
be with your clients?
710
:If you really want to help them
get to results, that would be some
711
:really fun stuff to talk about.
712
:I know that we'll have some fun talking
about it and I hope you'll come and join
713
:us and listen into that as well, but we
would love you to give us some feedback.
714
:So if you have questions about anything
you've heard on the episode today, if
715
:you have different opinions on some of
the things that we've talked about, we
716
:would like to hear from you, you can
leave us a voice message, go to speakpipe.
717
:com.
718
:Forward slash the coaching clinic
podcast you can leave us your coaching
719
:questions comments and concerns there
And you'll find the link for that
720
:in the show notes as well that speak
721
:speakpipe.
722
:com forward slash the coaching clinic
podcast and leave us your voicemails.
723
:And if it's a good one, we might
just feature you on the show.
724
:So that's pretty much it from us today.
725
:We've had some fun talking about this.
726
:We're going to be back next time with
another episode, talking about some
727
:of the fun stuff you can do with your
clients to help them get results.
728
:But all that remains for us to say is
have an amazing week and we'll see you
729
:very soon.
730
:Angie: Bye bye
