Difficult Coaching Clients: Dealing with Complaints and Criticism
Handling Client Complaints in Coaching: Experiences and Strategies
In this episode, John and Angie delve into the challenging topic of client complaints in the coaching profession.
They share personal anecdotes of dealing with direct and indirect complaints from clients and discuss the emotional impact these experiences had on them.
The discussion covers practical strategies for setting clear expectations with clients, providing session notes, and approaching complaints with empathy and curiosity.
They also touch on the importance of reflecting on feedback, even when it is negative, to improve one's coaching practice.
The episode concludes with advice on handling potentially damaging complaints on social media and the significance of maintaining professionalism while ensuring both the coach and the client can amicably part ways if necessary.
Do you have a question for John & Angie? Thoughts about this episode's topics? Any other feedback? Leave us a voicemail, it's free. Here's the link: https://speakpipe.com/thecoachingclinicpodcast
00:00 Introduction and Lighthearted Banter
01:07 Dealing with Client Complaints: Personal Experiences
03:48 Handling Complaints: Strategies and Reflections
10:25 Setting Expectations and Avoiding Misunderstandings
18:48 Learning from Feedback and Continuous Improvement
27:18 Resolving Complaints and Maintaining Professionalism
35:33 Conclusion and Listener Engagement
Transcript
John,
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:John: Angie.
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:Angie: I've got to tell you,
I'm not happy with the service
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:you've been providing lately.
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:John: Oh no, Angie.
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:How can I ever make it up to you?
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:Angie: Well, quick foot massage
might help, and then maybe
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:you can get some chocolates.
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:Oh, and I love my grapes
to be peeled, by the way.
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:John: Don't worry.
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:I'm on it.
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:Angie: You've got until the intro
ends to get this all done for me.
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:John: Let's start the show.
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:Angie: One of the things I think that
we all deal with as coaches, and it's
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:a fear, I think it's like the one thing
we try to avoid, is complaints, right?
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:Getting a
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:John: We don't like them.
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:Angie: No.
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:So, let me ask you, have you, I
shouldn't say have you ever, but
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:how did you feel the first time
you ever had a client complain?
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:John: That boy.
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:There's two different versions of that.
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:One would be the first time I ever
had a client complain directly to me.
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:And another was the first time
I ever had a client complaining
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:about me behind my back.
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:So different versions of that story.
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:And my first experience of a
client complaint was someone
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:complaining directly to me on a call.
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:It was in my early days of coaching and
it was very much you don't know what the
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:F you're talking about, blah, blah, blah,
you're useless as a coach, very much, very
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:confrontational, very direct to my face.
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:And and I wasn't ready for it.
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:It wasn't, I really wasn't
ready to handle that.
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:But I did know better than to rise to that
and or react to it in a sort of defensive
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:way and was able to calm the situation
down and move it into a, move it into a
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:calmer conversation where I was able to
say, look, tell me what's really going on.
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:It wasn't so much actually to do with me.
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:It was just like, I was there at a time
when her emotions were running high.
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:Angie: uh,
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:John: And I got it all blurting out as
hate towards me on a coaching call, but
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:there were other things going on there.
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:Some of it was to do with my
inexperience as a coach at that time.
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:But you can't hate on someone
for not having the experience
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:that you would like them to have.
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:Doesn't help the situation.
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:So yeah, we ended up talking about it
and she ended up being transferred to
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:work with a different coach from the
organization that I was with at that time.
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:And it got resolved.
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:But the second time was
somebody complaining about me
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:on social media behind my back.
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:And That was a bit different
that felt much more like a
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:betrayal that was much more
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:like I it was hard not to take that
personally because this is having the
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:potential to damage me professionally.
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:Angie: sure,
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:John: and that upset me a lot more
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:and cause I couldn't directly confront it.
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:So that was that was very, that
was the hardest part of that, not
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:being able to directly confront it.
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:So yeah, that, that was actually
very very emotionally painful.
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:And I would say that one is,
I got very uncomfortable.
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:It did get dealt with but
yeah, very unpleasant.
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:How about you?
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:What was your experience been like that?
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:Angie: well, I've had a couple, and
you bring up a few really, few, not
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:even just one or two, a few really
good points, like number one, if
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:you're working for an organization.
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:And they, they say something air
quotes like behind your back or if
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:they go out on social media that
can feel really intimidating because
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:you might say to yourself geez,
like what happened in the moment?
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:So I did have my first experience
was with somebody in the moment.
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:And it was so funny cause I think it
was like our third or fourth session.
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:And in the first two sessions, she
was just talking about this really
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:lousy, semi abusive situation
she was in with her partner.
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:And when we came into the next
session, I, went into like, how
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:are you, how is everything going?
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:And wasn't physical abuse, but it was
definitely like mental, verbal, emotional.
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:And because at that point I was really
trying to assess like, does this
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:person really need to get therapy?
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:Do they need to go to the police?
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:I didn't really know.
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:So when I asked, she flew off
the handle and she was like, I
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:don't want to talk about this.
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:I don't know why you
bringing this up to me.
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:And in that moment, I think I was able to
like steady the ship because initially I
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:was like, holy smokes, who's this person?
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:Where's this coming from?
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:But then I realized , I
was hitting a pain point
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:and she didn't like it.
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:And I took a breath kind of what you did
and said, Hey, so what's really going on?
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:And it took me almost the entire,
I think we had five minutes
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:left to a one hour session.
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:And she was like, I'm really sorry.
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:I just, I don't know.
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:This is really hard for me to talk about.
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:And at that point I said to her,
listen, I think that, maybe this is
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:a different space that you need to go
into and not specifically in coaching.
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:And then I did have somebody
complained about me to an
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:organization that I worked for.
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:And like you said, that was like a
little kind of, I felt like it was sneaky
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:Pete because everything seemed okay.
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:So here's what I was saying earlier,
like it really begs that question.
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:When you're the coach, I think just
as humans, we immediately go to
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:defensive, like what, what did I do?
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:Or what are they talking about?
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:Maybe not necessarily.
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:What did I do?
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:And I don't really think I've ever
met a coach that affected somebody
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:so negatively that they were like,
wow, this person is really horrible.
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:And it's not about an experience.
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:That's one thing, but there are
definitely coaches out there who
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:are just don't have great coaches
and they don't know how to coach.
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:So you really have to take that step
back sometimes and say, what happened?
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:We can't blame, we can't immediately
come out of the gate blaming the client.
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:But we shouldn't also come
out of it blaming ourselves.
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:I think we need to come to
those with curiosity first.
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:What do you think of that?
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:John: You and I had some chats not that
long ago about an ex client of mine who
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:had been getting in touch to complain
about the work that we'd done together.
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:And basically his life had gone
to shit after that time, and he
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:was blaming the coaching for that.
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:And saying that I'd said things
that I'd never said on coaching
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:calls and I told him to do things.
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:And when he was there, these
are things that I would never
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:have told anyone to do anyway.
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:Not that you do this on coaching
sessions, but the whole situation
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:was, I know you were one of the
first people I talked about it.
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:Because it was just like, I don't
even feel like I can respond to it.
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:I'm not taking it personally.
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:It's it's going to happen.
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:It's unpleasant.
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:I feel bad for the guy, but I know it's
not the coaching that's caused this.
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:And I'm confident enough
in my coaching skills.
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:I know what I've said
and what I haven't said.
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:To respond would have felt like
defending myself or defending my
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:coaching.
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:Which I didn't really feel that I needed
to do and also what not beneficial to the
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:situation just not it doesn't actually
help So actually you're wrong and this
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:is what this is from my perspective.
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:This is what really happened But,
for him, that whole situation
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:was feeling, feeling real.
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:It was very obviously a way to try
and pass responsibility for the state
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:that his life had ended up into.
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:And this, I guess there was
some kind of thing in his head
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:thinking I've hired a coach.
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:I've done the stuff you're
supposed to do to be successful.
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:Why am I not successful?
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:Why has it gone the other way?
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:And we could go back and pull that
all apart and figure that out.
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:But again.
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:I'm not doing that, and I'm not
his coach anymore, and I'm not
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:there to help him figure it out.
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:And we ended up both saying, as
you pointed out, I think he wants
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:more coaching from you, and he
doesn't want to pay for that.
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:I think that was exactly right.
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:It just, it was like a whole series of
complaint after complaint after complaint
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:trying to complain to the company that I'd
worked with him with, complaining to other
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:coaches who'd been with that company all
trying to get stuff to come back to me.
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:And that I'm, I can't fix this
and I'm not even gonna try.
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:But it was, that was more of a
thing of, I just wanna complain
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:because I don't actually wanna take
responsibility for my own mess ups.
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:Angie: Yeah.
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:And I think that's interesting, too.
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:Why do we get, why do people complain?
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:Most people don't.
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:My experience has been 95 98 percent
of the people do not complain.
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:you That doesn't mean that
they're always comfortable.
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:That doesn't mean that it's easy.
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:But I think that there's
two kinds of people, right?
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:There's the people who are serious about
coaching and serious about making movement
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:and making change and understanding
that change doesn't always go like
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:butterflies, rainbows and unicorns.
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:Sometimes you uncover a lot in coaching
and that's the beginning of the real work.
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:Starting, like that's the beginning of it.
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:That's when, and I think that your
person in particular you brought
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:him probably to some really hard
truths and instead of butterflies and
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:rainbows and unicorns, he probably
felt Oh my gosh, now what do I do?
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:This is the beginning.
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:I'm, I can't navigate this.
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:Something must be wrong.
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:Transcribed And again, because you didn't
talk to him, we don't even really know
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:that as fact, but it does happen for some
people, they come in maybe sometimes
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:they have like unrealistic expectations.
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:So I think a great way to avoid that.
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:And again, there's
nothing foolproof, right?
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:There's no way with the
way that people are, right?
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:That we could say, this is the foolproof
way to never get a client complaint.
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:Cause that's BS, but we've talked
about right in the beginning, setting
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:an expectation and asking them,
what is it you would love to see?
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:Why are you in coaching?
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:What is it you're looking for?
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:And then telling them like, you're a
different kind of coach than me, John.
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:So you're, you might say
I'm going to do this.
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:This is how I approach things.
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:And I'm going to say Hey, Mr.
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:John, I am client.
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:And I am.
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:A very direct coach, I don't
dance around, I don't circle
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:the drain, I go straight to it.
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:Are you okay with that?
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:So that's like probably my first thing, my
first approach to make sure, or not make
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:sure, I'm sorry, but do my best to avoid
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:John: I think that that situation
does put something away that it
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:could be relevant to our listener
of do you always have to deal with
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:the complaints that come through?
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:As you said, probably few and
far between for the most part,
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:because I think if you're finding
you're getting lots of complaints.
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:That maybe isn't so much the
clients that might be in that
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:might mean that there's something
else that needs to be investigated
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:Angie: check the common
denominator please.
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:See, you're
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:John: gonna find this infrequent I think
that's gonna be no matter how good you
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:are how wonderful you are as a coach.
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:You're gonna get complaints You're
gonna get people who for some reason
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:don't like you And maybe work with
you for a bit and then decide they
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:don't like you or have just don't
enjoy their experience with you.
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:Is it always appropriate to respond?
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:Well, sometimes you have to, sometimes
it is appropriate to respond because
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:sometimes a client situation can be saved.
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:And so I think when someone who's an
active client work, who is currently
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:working with you, if you can resolve
that situation and at least, Come
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:to an amicable arrangement, even
if it doesn't end up going, no, the
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:coaching relationship can continue.
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:You can still usually get it to some point
of, all right, well, we can separate as
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:coach and client and be okay with that
in the situation where I talked about,
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:it's like someone was bad bath me online
that actually has to be addressed.
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:You have to find that person and
say, you need to stop doing this.
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:And if you don't stop doing this we're
going to get legal teams involved.
229
:Which is what it took in that situation
as she took threat of legal action
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:and to get her to remove because I
knew exactly who it was, even though
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:she was posting under a fake name
and stuff, I knew exactly who it was.
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:And and all those posts got removed.
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:The fake profile got removed.
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:What was really funny was that she was
at the next event that we did in London
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:and And saw me and spent pretty much the
whole weekend because it was a weekend
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:event trying to avoid me She didn't manage
it, but she did try For a whole weekend,
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:Angie: a better person than me.
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:John: I didn't make a
scene of it even then
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:Angie: yeah, yeah, listen, okay, so
you are better than me because if I
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:were to see somebody who went so far
fake profiles and posts and if you
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:really are angry, if you really feel
like there's blame, you're not hiding.
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:Well, mostly you're not.
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:It's so easy to be a troll now.
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:I mean, just to.
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:See what you wanna say and not
have anybody know who you are.
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:I'm not sure though, 'cause
I've never experienced it.
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:I'm actually trying to think of
Coach Angie in her best at an
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:event where somebody was, saying
some pretty awful things about me.
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:I don't know if I could.
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:I'm thinking.
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:I don't know if I could pretend.
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:I guess in the end, I might
have some thoughts going through
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:my head like, You know what?
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:I really want to walk up to this person
and say, What do you have to say now?
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:Right?
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:Say it to my face.
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:But that probably
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:John: I think she was very worried.
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:She was very worried.
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:Yeah, she was very worried I was gonna
do that 'cause she was with a group of
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:people and so I think that's why trying
to hide her face every time she was
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:anywhere near me for exactly that reason.
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:But I didn't make a thing of it.
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:We'd already dealt with the situation
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:by that time so there was really no
need to but it was just strange to me
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:after someone who had been bad thing
Not just me, but the whole company
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:that was working with she should have
been banned from the event She should
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:have been and so I mean that Probably
thinking about now if I should have
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:arranged for her to get banned from the
event as soon as I saw she was there.
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:So I regret that I didn't do that because
I don't really think you want people
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:there who have been like that with you.
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:But the other situation I was talking
about, that was like well after, The
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:other situation was like well after
the fact, to like over a year after
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:having worked together, someone's
coming back and saying, My, my lives
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:turned to poo because of you, basically.
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:There was no benefit to responding
to that, and that's what,
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:and I racked myself with it.
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:I did compose a response and
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:toyed with whether I
should send it or not.
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:I guess it was more for me that I did it.
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:The long run of that was what
possible benefit is there?
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:It's this has to be a self realization
thing for them of getting themselves
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:to the point where they can actually
take responsibility for this and
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:not be trying to blame someone who
isn't responsible for their life.
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:So
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:Angie: I want to say this to you though.
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:I, cause I was part of that with you.
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:And I think that, You handled it
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:amazingly because you did process
it when you were sitting there
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:composing, some type of response.
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:You were also taking a moment with
yourself as a coach and saying, okay,
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:wait, let me look at this situation.
293
:Let me show up with curiosity.
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:You weren't just like bashing the
person and going, Hey, cut it out.
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:You're wrong.
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:This isn't, that's not my fault.
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:You did spend, I wouldn't say a
considerable amount of time, but you
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:and I had a few conversations about it.
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:And at the end of the day, because
of the amount of, and the ways this
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:person was coming at you first,
they were like, they were trying to
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:get in every orifice of your world.
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:Okay.
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:To get to you.
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:And at the end of the day, I
think that you did the right
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:thing as a professional coach
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:And initially we're like, I'm not
really sure what are your thoughts?
307
:And you looked at it
from the bird's eye view.
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:And that's what I said
earlier, like curiosity.
309
:We can't just assume that it's not
about right or wrong sometimes, right?
310
:Sometimes it's about, I have a
dissatisfied customer client and I
311
:either need them to be satisfied.
312
:Or I need to part ways with them in a
way that doesn't make them feel rejected
313
:because I did that once with another
client and I, it was like my second
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:session with her and she was , Oh,
like really like you're triggering me.
315
:I was like, Whoa, like I stopped it
like 10 minutes into the second session.
316
:I was triggering her and I'm not
saying I wasn't, but I wasn't sure, I
317
:didn't know her well enough yet to
know . Where are the boundaries, where
318
:do I have to kind of tread lightly?
319
:And I said, and in very respectfully,
I said, listen, of course I apologize.
320
:This isn't about triggering what triggered
you and I was being super curious.
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:And then finally, after about 15, 20
minutes of listening to how freaking
322
:horrible I was, I said how about this?
323
:Like I actually have a couple of coaches
that are colleagues of mine that I
324
:think might actually be a great fit.
325
:Why don't you?
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:Interview both of them and
then guess what she did.
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:She lost her flipping mind
because now I was rejecting her.
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:This is not a coaching client.
329
:This is a therapy client, right?
330
:This is
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:a patient, somebody who needs,
and that's okay, but sometimes it
332
:does happen like that and you're
like, all right, danger, danger.
333
:John: and I.
334
:You and I are going to do a whole episode
about that at some point, because yeah,
335
:I've had some of those situations as well.
336
:And yeah, yeah, that's
completely different.
337
:But I tell
338
:Angie: let me ask you something though.
339
:Transcribed
340
:This isn't really, I think this is, I
think the first time in the, maybe the
341
:second time because that's probably only a
handful of times where I've had an issue.
342
:Did a complaint affect you in
upcoming coaching sessions?
343
:Did anything change for
you in those moments?
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:Uh.
345
:Oh yeah.
346
:John: I felt, I felt a bit of
a need to qualify things more.
347
:Do you get what I'm saying with that?
348
:, I felt like I had to be very qualified
and very specific in what I'm saying.
349
:like, reducing potential
misinterpretation.
350
:And yeah, so I guess a little bit
protectionist, but not, I wouldn't
351
:get to a point where I wouldn't
still say what needs to be said, but.
352
:I definitely felt I was being
far more deliberate and so, I
353
:don't see it as a bad thing.
354
:I think that might have, it might've
actually been a good thing to
355
:come out of that whole situation.
356
:Cause you were saying about
taking a look at that whole
357
:thing and like pulling it apart.
358
:The reason for doing that
was like, is there something
359
:there that I can learn from?
360
:I, in my head, I'm saying like, Oh yeah,
the stuff he's saying about my coaching,
361
:not really valid and stuff he's saying
that I said I told him to do and was like
362
:essentially saying I've directed his life.
363
:I mean, there was some serious
accusations in there and I knew
364
:that they weren't true, but I still
had to look at it and say, is there
365
:something I can learn from this?
366
:Is there some way, can I look back
at the situation saying, are there,
367
:is there ways that I could have
handled things better on those calls?
368
:Were there things that I could have made
much clearer in those times, which is
369
:possibly the case, but still doesn't put
me in a situation where it's like, oh
370
:yeah, you really screwed up on that one.
371
:It's I didn't feel like that at all.
372
:Like, I'm confident enough
in who I am and what I do.
373
:But yeah I do think we should always
take a look and see if there's something
374
:to learn from the situation and
something we can grow from with it.
375
:Angie: Absolutely.
376
:It's the black and white.
377
:So here's the scenario with you.
378
:Yeah.
379
:You knew that things that this person
was saying, black and white, coach John
380
:did or did not do and or say these things.
381
:And you could say to yourself, Nope,
that didn't, did not happen, right?
382
:You know, there's the black and white.
383
:We also know as coaches though,
there's a very subjective piece
384
:to what we do in every session.
385
:That's the part that you're referring to.
386
:But that's the part
where you had to go back.
387
:And have put in a, like,
serious reflection on, Okay,
388
:what could I have done?
389
:I knew the client.
390
:Was there a way for me to do
something better for the next time?
391
:Because the bottom line was, even
if you did give this birth, even if
392
:you said, Hey, here's all your money
back, they'd still be, slashing you.
393
:Or you
394
:John: you what, yeah, that brings
up something really interesting for
395
:me because as I did look back on
that stuff and I was thinking, Hey,
396
:there was some expectation from this
client that I could, I should somehow
397
:have said, stop, don't do that.
398
:That's wrong.
399
:And, as I was thinking back onto
the sessions, I was thinking.
400
:I knew that he wasn't really fully doing
the stuff that he said he was doing.
401
:And I knew that he wasn't, that
he was maybe making things sound
402
:better than they really were.
403
:And, trying to make himself sound better
or more successful than he really was.
404
:So I knew that stuff was going on.
405
:And I look back and think, could
I have challenged that more?
406
:Yeah, I absolutely could have.
407
:There was like, was there stuff I could
have learned from those situations?
408
:Yeah, there was stuff I can learn from it.
409
:I have a friend, I don't
know if he still does this.
410
:He still does live training,
but you're a super nice guy.
411
:And in live training sessions, you can
generally do feedback forms, right?
412
:If you've ever done that kind of
thing, generally there's feedback
413
:forms and would have somebody go
through all the feedback forms.
414
:And pull out anything negative
before he looks at it,
415
:Angie: Oh,
416
:John: which, yeah, which I don't see the
point of it's like there, there is stuff
417
:to learn from negative feedback, even
if it's, even if it's quite atrocious,
418
:negative feedback, even if it's not
constructive, there's still stuff you
419
:can potentially learn from it and you
shouldn't ignore it because it gives
420
:you, it starts to take away the reality
of, Not everyone has the same experience
421
:in these things as we say, most of the
feedback, most of the stuff you get
422
:people don't complain and aren't going
to come out to you, but I don't think
423
:ignoring negative criticism or feedback
in itself is a particularly good strategy
424
:for your own growth and development.
425
:Angie: no.
426
:And you know what's so interesting
is I worked for a pretty big, you
427
:know this, I worked for a pretty
big coaching company and there were
428
:assessments for the client that I
never saw after each and every session.
429
:And it was a series of questions,
and it was ratings, right?
430
:1 to 10 ratings.
431
:How would you rate your
session with Coach Angie?
432
:I don't even know.
433
:At the end of the month, they would say,
Your, oh, your average rating was 8.
434
:9 or 9.
435
:6.
436
:I don't think it was ever under 9.
437
:I'm just saying.
438
:Whoop, whoop.
439
:Just saying.
440
:But I felt that it was unfair that
the company didn't share them with me.
441
:Like the specific pieces, where
could I learn and where am I
442
:doing well so that I could even
expand on that and utilize that.
443
:So it's great when you work for a
company and they have metrics, it sucks
444
:if they don't share them with you.
445
:But even for yourself as a coach,
we shouldn't wait to do a check
446
:in until we get a complaint or
somebody's I love you at the end
447
:and I want to keep going because how
do we really know how we're doing?
448
:Again, this is not to say that.
449
:We're at blame and if we can't keep
people happy that means we're not
450
:good coaches because that's crap.
451
:That's not true But we do I do think
that the more we get in the habit of
452
:Because the question I asked you earlier.
453
:Hey, how did it affect you?
454
:It affected me as well.
455
:I definitely was hyper focused for I
don't know, several sessions after that
456
:initial, that one person who was like,
why are you talking to me about this?
457
:I don't know, because it's a
pain point, like being a little
458
:facetious right now, but because
what do you want to talk about?
459
:What would you rather talk about?
460
:So that's honestly, when something
negative does happen, if you don't
461
:have something in place where you can
give your clients the opportunity to.
462
:Share with you.
463
:And it's hard because they don't
always want to be honest either, right?
464
:They're afraid to say things.
465
:They're a little intimidated, but
you need to have, we need to have
466
:something in place where we do get to
check in with ourselves to make sure
467
:that, we're still doing things at the
highest level that we possibly can.
468
:In that moment, we have to
keep growing and changing.
469
:You're not the same coach you
were when you first started.
470
:I certainly am not the same
coach I was when I first started.
471
:Why are you laughing?
472
:John: I feel like, I feel like
my years of customer service
473
:experience helped me for being able
to handle stuff like that as well.
474
:Let me just a little piece of trivia, but
475
:in the airline world that I used to
be in, who do you think, out of which
476
:country, which country do you think
complained the most in terms of like write
477
:in complaints to their, To the airline.
478
:This is specific to a very
wonderful British airline.
479
:which country do you think wrote
him with the most complaints?
480
:Angie: United States.
481
:John: No Japan.
482
:Angie: I was gonna flip and say Japan.
483
:I was gonna say it, dang
484
:John: And the main reason is because
they're too polite to complain
485
:about anything on the flight.
486
:So they'll, so they'll write in afterwards
about things that they're not happy with.
487
:And I'm sure even the complaints
are pretty polite, you know?
488
:Uh, but yeah just an interesting thing.
489
:It's kind of easy to, in customer
service scenarios, usually to
490
:deal with the on spot complaints.
491
:Because you can either either I can
handle that right here and now, or I can
492
:put you on to whoever can help resolve
this and, pass it on to somebody else.
493
:And that's probably the situation
I mostly find myself in now.
494
:I don't come in, don't come
across that many complaint
495
:situations and sort of things.
496
:And there's something telling some
horror stories today that people
497
:thinking, Oh my goodness, I'm going to
have to deal with this kind of stuff.
498
:You may not.
499
:You may not have anything like
as bad as some of the stuff
500
:that they've had come through.
501
:But you will get some people who aren't
happy or will complain, whether it's like
502
:a course that you've got, or whether it's
a group coaching or one on one coaching.
503
:People end up complaining and I do
think you have to do something to
504
:resolve these things because if you
allow people to leave pissed off.
505
:Then they are likely to take to
social media and say, actually, this
506
:is a bad product, a bad company.
507
:I'm unhappy.
508
:They took my money.
509
:They didn't sort anything
out, blah, blah, blah.
510
:And that stuff happens.
511
:And so I would much rather, if someone's
been in one of my programs, I'd much
512
:rather have a meeting with them.
513
:I set things up from the start.
514
:Now, if there's a problem or you're
not happy with the program, you don't
515
:till you get the results from it.
516
:I want you to tell me.
517
:And we'll give you your money back and
we'll part as friends, is that okay?
518
:Can't give you the time back,
but I can give you the money back
519
:because the damage to your online
reputation is potentially too bad.
520
:Some of this stuff will be
situationally dependent, of course.
521
:But I've never
522
:really had a situation where
someone's just complained
523
:for the sake of complaining.
524
:Angie: Yeah.
525
:John: Not really.
526
:Angie: I think that there's I think
that, you know, me and my rules of
527
:thumb, I think a really good rule
of thumb is two, three things.
528
:Always set the expectation in the very
beginning when you don't know each
529
:other yet and they're still excited.
530
:Number two, I always
provide notes to them.
531
:Always.
532
:Today, we discussed this, and
I'll even say, this made you
533
:uncomfortable blah biddy blah.
534
:Like I put that into those notes.
535
:And the third thing is that if I
do get a complaint, I just show
536
:up with empathetic curiosity.
537
:That's the phrase that I use in my head
, all right, before I even start in my
538
:head defending myself, cause I'm not even
really sure what the hell's going on yet.
539
:Like you said, have a conversation,
and in that conversation, I would
540
:literally be like, if it were you,
John, say you were my client, I'd
541
:say, listen, hey, what's going on?
542
:Let's just talk about it.
543
:And I think when I come, even with that
same energy and tonality that I just used,
544
:I feel like when I approach it that way,
or if I approach things that way, I really
545
:get, more bees with the honey because they
don't feel like they're being placated.
546
:They don't want to be, right?
547
:They don't want to be placated,
but they believe because it's the
548
:truth that my intention is to come
to this and understand them because
549
:that's really what it comes down to.
550
:John: Yeah,
551
:and I think that's the right attitude.
552
:Angie: what's that?
553
:John: I'd say that's the right attitude
because I think the way some people
554
:sometimes go with this and I did make this
mistake early on is to start trying to
555
:bend over backwards to make them happy.
556
:Not literally, of course, but
just, just really going out of
557
:your way to try and placate them
at whatever cost or do whatever.
558
:Like we were joking at the
start about foot massages and
559
:chocolates and stuff like that.
560
:It's that do whatever you need
to do to win them back over.
561
:And it's not, it shouldn't be
about that because that starts
562
:to become unreasonable then.
563
:And it starts to give away your power as
a coach and and as a business operator.
564
:That's not the situation you want
to get into, but you do want to make
565
:sure first of all, does the person
complaining have a valid complaint?
566
:Angie: Right.
567
:John: And if they do, then you
should hear them out, as you say,
568
:be empathetically curious about
it and get to the bottom of it.
569
:Can it be resolved to
everyone's satisfaction?
570
:It's going to be either yes, it can.
571
:And we can continue working together.
572
:Yes, it can, but we can't
continue working together.
573
:No, it can't.
574
:But here's something we
can do to at least try.
575
:put an end to the situation
or, stop the complaint.
576
:Angie: Yeah.
577
:It really needs to be both.
578
:Like it has to have, I hate
to use this like 80s phrase,
579
:but it needs to be win win.
580
:You shouldn't.
581
:I remember thinking that there was
that one client that was like, yeah,
582
:why are you talking about this?
583
:Like high pain point.
584
:I could have bent over backwards and
split quarters for this person and
585
:I was never going to make them feel
what they needed to feel because
586
:they didn't belong in coaching.
587
:That was the truth.
588
:They did not.
589
:Maybe eventually, but they had a
lot of things they needed to work on
590
:first and I did do an assessment and
I thought to myself maybe the next
591
:time, what would I do differently?
592
:I always say myself, what
would I do differently?
593
:And it's along the lines.
594
:I don't want to be redundant
of what you just said.
595
:It's just assessing, you have to be able
as a coach to have that a bird's eye view.
596
:Nope.
597
:Um, of how you're coaching them in the
moment, but also after the fact, right?
598
:Did I get caught in the moment?
599
:Because we're working in the moment.
600
:We're not working off of a script.
601
:So sometimes we might, make
a mistake or, in the moment
602
:have made not the best choice.
603
:I do think again, those three approaches
or mindsets, practices help them.
604
:alleviate a lot of that.
605
:I think that's why I don't get a lot
of complaints is because, I set the, I
606
:set this to this, and here's the table.
607
:This is dinner.
608
:Come and eat or don't eat.
609
:If you don't like the way I coach, then
I'll happily help you find somebody else.
610
:You're laughing because I'm saying it to
you with my like Northeasterner kind of
611
:John: laughing, I'm laughing because
somebody listening, I think, oh,
612
:you've dealt with a lot of complaints.
613
:Is that, well, that's a handful
really in a 15 year coaching career.
614
:It really is a handful of complaints.
615
:And yeah, one of them
is fairly recent, but.
616
:Generally it is, it's not that much
and fairly resolvable or the complaints
617
:end up being about logistical
things that I can't do much about,
618
:like, no availability and things
619
:Angie: Sure.
620
:John: always do a lot about, but
it's still, it can still be valid
621
:concerns and complaints for people.
622
:Can you, again, can you
get into a resolution?
623
:You can always, I think
you can say win win.
624
:It's I think you can generally
get to a position where everyone's
625
:at least can part as friends.
626
:It may not necessarily feel like a win
win, but it's, I think that is the best
627
:win you can get if someone really decides,
I'm going to stomp my feet and scream
628
:the loudest until you resolve my problem.
629
:Otherwise there, there are these people
who are like, I'm going to take to social
630
:media and I'm going to make sure that
631
:you're, you And your company,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
632
:That's out there and some people may
actually even follow through on that.
633
:But
634
:Angie: Yeah.
635
:John: I do think you can, you
can generally reason with people
636
:and get, again, to a satisfactory
point of closure where you just
637
:say, okay, things haven't, maybe haven't
worked out well, but let's let's take
638
:this path, part this way as friends, shake
639
:hands and go.
640
:Can't always be done.
641
:So sometimes you may just
have to accept the situation's
642
:just not going to get better.
643
:You can't resolve the problem.
644
:The person maybe even doesn't
want to resolve the problem, and
645
:you just have to deal with it.
646
:And in more extreme cases, it could
lead to some legal issues for you.
647
:You might refer back to our
episode on insurance, so you might
648
:Angie: Insurance
649
:people.
650
:John: have some cover.
651
:Angie: Absolutely.
652
:Absolutely.
653
:Because that just helps
you keep your mind right.
654
:When something does come up I
think that's really the end of it.
655
:That's my approach.
656
:I have a little three step approach.
657
:You can't salvage every relationship.
658
:You can't be successful every
single time because the unknowns
659
:are that piece of coaching.
660
:That's
661
:John: Yeah,
662
:Angie: is.
663
:Right.
664
:So
665
:John: complaints.
666
:You probably won't get that many
of them but but be prepared.
667
:Be prepared and know how you're gonna
handle them as they arise and don't
668
:get defensive about it and be curious
and listen to people and find the
669
:most amicable way forward that everyone
can at least come away feeling that
670
:they've been heard, they got what
they needed and can move on from it.
671
:Angie: Right.
672
:Don't focus on being right.
673
:Right.
674
:Your customer service.
675
:My customer service.
676
:Well, my was more sales, but it was, the
customer isn't always right, but somehow
677
:John: Well,
678
:Angie: they should always be satisfied.
679
:John: that's a good philosophy
for life though, isn't it?
680
:You can be right or you can be happy.
681
:Yeah.
682
:Angie: Yeah.
683
:No.
684
:John: well next time we're gonna talk
about a somewhat different topic of
685
:how to package your coaching sessions
and then it's something that People are
686
:going to be interested in these like
lifetime value clients and things like
687
:that So that's going to be a fun and
possibly somewhat shorter conversation.
688
:But yeah, I think it's been an
interesting chat to talk about this
689
:kind of stuff, and I hope it doesn't
leave anyone nervous about about
690
:their coaching life and career for it.
691
:Angie: Yeah.
692
:No.
693
:It's just part of it.
694
:It's just part of being in business.
695
:Any business where you provide a
service, there's always opportunity
696
:for people to not be happy.
697
:You just have to handle it like
a professional and know that, you
698
:can affect the outcomes, period.
699
:You have some level of control over that.
700
:John: So do you have questions
about complaints, about dealing
701
:with complaints, handling with them,
what to do in particular situations?
702
:Maybe you've got a specific situation
that you want a bit of guidance around, or
703
:maybe you have other questions around your
coaching business or Particular client
704
:situations that you have questions about.
705
:It was a voicemail.
706
:You can do that for free.
707
:You can go to speak, pipe, speak, pipe.
708
:com forward slash the
coaching clinic podcast.
709
:You can find the link in the show
notes, leave us a voice message.
710
:And if it's a good one, we
might just feature you on the
711
:show, but that's it from me and
712
:Angie: woo.
713
:John: We'll see
714
:Angie: woo.
715
:John: very
716
:soon.
717
:Angie: All right.
718
:Bye bye.