Psycholoigcal Safety: Building Trust in Coaching Environments

John: 00:00:00

Angie,

2

: 00:00:01

Angie: John.

3

: 00:00:02

John: have you ever heard

of psychological safety?

4

: 00:00:06

Angie: Oh, yeah, of course.

5

: 00:00:07

I mean, it's super important in coaching

6

: 00:00:09

John: Oh, not just coaching

environments, right?

7

: 00:00:12

Angie: That's right.

8

: 00:00:13

It's important in many

professional environments.

9

: 00:00:17

John: Yeah, and maybe in some

of our personal ones too.

10

: 00:00:20

Angie: It certainly does help.

11

: 00:00:22

John: How do you feel about making

that today's topic for our show?

12

: 00:00:25

Angie: I am all in.

13

: 00:00:26

Let's do it.

14

: 00:01:10

John: All right.

15

: 00:01:10

The coaching clinic is open, Angie.

16

: 00:01:12

And today we're talking

about psychological safety.

17

: 00:01:16

It's such an important thing.

18

: 00:01:17

And I think we hear it said a lot, but we

perhaps don't always know what it means.

19

: 00:01:22

So what do you understand by

the term psychological safety?

20

: 00:01:27

Angie: You know, I think I overly

simplify it because we could go deep,

21

: 00:01:30

deep, deep, you know, into the layers

and in the, in the spaces, but I think

22

: 00:01:34

it's just really having the ability to

have space where there's no fear of.

23

: 00:01:45

Consequence within a relationship

within a conversation.

24

: 00:01:49

So to me, it's really about

that safe space to interact.

25

: 00:01:55

John: Yeah, there's having an environment

where you can express yourself freely

26

: 00:01:59

without fear of retribution without fear

of negative judgment, and you can actually

27

: 00:02:04

speak your mind openly and honestly,

and I think that's super important.

28

: 00:02:09

And perhaps when we put it in those terms,

it makes it perhaps obvious why that's

29

: 00:02:13

so important in a coaching environment.

30

: 00:02:16

Environment because if our clients

don't feel comfortable to open up

31

: 00:02:21

fully to us Okay, that can take time

then We may not really ever get into

32

: 00:02:28

any of the deeper elements to them.

33

: 00:02:29

So How do you go about creating

that environment for your clients?

34

: 00:02:37

Angie: I think I, you know, I definitely

know I do it right from the beginning.

35

: 00:02:41

I think within a few sessions, maybe

not even a few, a couple of sessions,

36

: 00:02:47

the client will get the feeling

that they can trust me because when

37

: 00:02:52

they say things, I'm not responding

like everybody else in their life.

38

: 00:02:56

I'm not answering just to answer.

39

: 00:02:59

I'm not listening just to

respond and I'm hearing them.

40

: 00:03:04

And there's things that I do.

41

: 00:03:06

I think that there's skillset

that kind of gets injected here.

42

: 00:03:10

Okay.

43

: 00:03:11

So that you can because like you can't

just say hey john, you're my new client.

44

: 00:03:15

You should just trust me I'm your coach

No trust is earned in any environment,

45

: 00:03:21

especially a new one because some

people come into coaching Let's be

46

: 00:03:24

honest super like they want to tell you

everything and then many people come

47

: 00:03:29

in and they're guarded intentionally

and some are guarded without even

48

: 00:03:34

recognizing that they're guarded.

49

: 00:03:36

So I think the first thing that I

do is just that I don't listen to

50

: 00:03:40

respond and then one of the skills

is that I will repeat back, which is

51

: 00:03:45

something we've talked about before,

but repeating back and saying like

52

: 00:03:51

even if I do understand, I might say,

so is this what you're telling me?

53

: 00:03:55

Is this what I'm hearing?

54

: 00:03:57

And immediately They, even if I'm not,

even if I'm not, even if they're like,

55

: 00:04:02

no, that's not quite what I meant.

56

: 00:04:05

Now it's a whole different

interaction than they're used to.

57

: 00:04:08

And I think that's the

beginning, the foundation.

58

: 00:04:12

So definitely that listening space

59

: 00:04:15

John: I like to yeah, I like to make

it very clear in our first session that

60

: 00:04:20

These are you know, we don't automatically

have like for a psychiatry or psychology

61

: 00:04:27

like there's a a pretty much automatic

In fact ingrained usually contractual Non

62

: 00:04:33

disclosure, everything's kept private kind

of agreement and we don't generally have

63

: 00:04:38

that officially in coaching So I think

it's good to have that at least a verbal

64

: 00:04:43

contract on that first call and just say

That I want you to know everything you

65

: 00:04:47

say here is going to be kept within this

session and I think we have maybe covered

66

: 00:04:51

that before now, of course, unless you

know Unless someone was talking about self

67

: 00:04:55

harming or You know, something that would

be against the law or anything like that.

68

: 00:05:00

We want this to be a place for

you to freely express yourself,

69

: 00:05:04

to have a free voice and to feel

comfortable enough to be able to

70

: 00:05:07

do that without fear of retribution

or judgment in the session as well.

71

: 00:05:13

And I have found over the years I

feel that in some ways it's even more

72

: 00:05:18

important now to be able to do that.

73

: 00:05:21

Just to understand that somebody could

have that place where they can Say

74

: 00:05:25

what's on the mind because I think

in the public forums of social media.

75

: 00:05:30

Angie: Oh,

76

: 00:05:31

John: only People generally

don't say what's on the mind.

77

: 00:05:34

They say what they think is acceptable

or they say what the group thinks

78

: 00:05:38

Wants them to say or if they're

like kids on the internet or maybe

79

: 00:05:42

Mentality like kids that they're set.

80

: 00:05:44

They're just they're stirring the pot,

But they're not in environments where they

81

: 00:05:48

can actually really talk and open up Yeah

82

: 00:05:52

Angie: well, so in my contract, though,

I do have a whole section that is that

83

: 00:05:59

says basically that everything here

is confidential, unless, you know, I

84

: 00:06:04

think that there's some other issue,

right, something going on, and we

85

: 00:06:07

need to involve, you know, the police

or, you know, but anyway, that's,

86

: 00:06:12

I think, important to recognize.

87

: 00:06:14

But I think I think that you're right.

88

: 00:06:16

I think that.

89

: 00:06:18

You know, now more than ever, because

social not, not just in social media, but

90

: 00:06:24

because of social media and the way things

work, it's much more important for us to

91

: 00:06:30

create that space and saying it certainly.

92

: 00:06:33

And I don't mean to say,

like, don't say it to them.

93

: 00:06:35

I mean, I think saying it to them,

like, this is a safe space that, you

94

: 00:06:39

know, nothing that definitely helps.

95

: 00:06:43

I think that many people come into

it though with a little bit of

96

: 00:06:46

like, Hmm, is this really going to

be what I think it's going to be?

97

: 00:06:51

And is she going to react?

98

: 00:06:54

You know, I think I told you once that I

was coaching somebody and I was, it was

99

: 00:07:00

a week after, you know, it was a follow

up and I said, Oh, that was really great.

100

: 00:07:04

You did that.

101

: 00:07:04

That was great.

102

: 00:07:05

And when I asked for feedback at the

end of the session, that client, which

103

: 00:07:11

was very eyeopening for me said, you

know I really valued our session for

104

: 00:07:15

this, this, and this reason, but I also

felt judged and I was like, Oh, okay.

105

: 00:07:22

I said, can you tell me,

you know, Where, how?

106

: 00:07:25

And she said to me well, when you

told me that I did a great job on X,

107

: 00:07:29

Y, Z, and I said, really, keep going.

108

: 00:07:34

You know, I wanted to hear,

cause I didn't understand it.

109

: 00:07:37

And she said, well, whether you told me

it was good or bad, it doesn't matter.

110

: 00:07:40

It's still a judgment in my mind.

111

: 00:07:42

That was a pretty eyeopening moment

for me where I realized that even

112

: 00:07:46

if somebody does respond well to a

cheerleader type of coaching, that.

113

: 00:07:52

Expressing anything that can

be received as like parental

114

: 00:07:58

judgment, like, yay, great job.

115

: 00:08:00

Right.

116

: 00:08:00

Or that was horrible.

117

: 00:08:02

You know, that was a pretty

eyeopening moment for me.

118

: 00:08:05

And if I had, if she didn't share

that with me, it may have really

119

: 00:08:11

kind of ruined the trust between

us, even on the subconscious level.

120

: 00:08:15

Right.

121

: 00:08:15

Even if she liked me and liked

our coaching, it may have

122

: 00:08:19

prevented her moving forward from.

123

: 00:08:21

Sharing with me and being vulnerable,

which is as we know, the key

124

: 00:08:25

to any coaching relationship.

125

: 00:08:28

It's interesting.

126

: 00:08:29

Yeah.

127

: 00:08:33

John: perspective I take with this as well

about how about just how important it can

128

: 00:08:36

be to create these kinds of spaces for

clients to be to be able to speed up that

129

: 00:08:42

journey to deeper trust that does allow

you to get into some of the deeper work

130

: 00:08:46

That you may want to do together I can say

as a gay man although I'm out and openly

131

: 00:08:51

gay, that's not true in every situation.

132

: 00:08:55

So someone I just met let's say I

just started working with a coach and

133

: 00:08:58

I didn't really know them very well.

134

: 00:09:00

I might wait to tell them about my

sexuality and my being married to a man.

135

: 00:09:06

I might not depends on how, but it

depends on how safe I feel with them.

136

: 00:09:09

And there are clients who maybe do have

something like that, or maybe they are non

137

: 00:09:14

gender conforming or trans or something

like that who do, to some degree, need to

138

: 00:09:21

know that they can feel safe and welcome

in your environment for based on who they

139

: 00:09:29

are, because these are characteristics

that we have perhaps previously being.

140

: 00:09:33

Been abused for or even punished

for just for being who we are.

141

: 00:09:38

So it is important to be able to

Have that safety in your sessions

142

: 00:09:42

for those for people who do

have Different characteristics.

143

: 00:09:48

Angie: Do you remember, I mean, I shared

this on the show probably almost a year

144

: 00:09:52

ago, maybe at this point, but you remember

me telling you that I did have a client

145

: 00:09:56

that came on and like session number one,

she re hired me and session number one,

146

: 00:10:01

it was, you know, I identify as a female.

147

: 00:10:05

anatomy.

148

: 00:10:06

And

149

: 00:10:06

John: I

150

: 00:10:07

knew that's exactly where

151

: 00:10:08

you were going

152

: 00:10:10

Angie: me up, you baited me.

153

: 00:10:12

I don't feel safe.

154

: 00:10:13

No, I'm not, I don't mean to

poke fun, but listen, that

155

: 00:10:16

could happen exactly that way.

156

: 00:10:17

But, but, but that was, you know, she,

she asked me in that moment, like,

157

: 00:10:22

you know, are you okay with that?

158

: 00:10:24

And I was a little stunned.

159

: 00:10:25

I'm not lying at first.

160

: 00:10:26

I was like, huh, I've never

experienced this before.

161

: 00:10:30

And quickly my mind processed and I

thought, okay, well like any other

162

: 00:10:36

thing, here's my question back to you.

163

: 00:10:39

What does that have to do

with your coaching journey?

164

: 00:10:41

How will it affect it?

165

: 00:10:43

Oh, I don't think it will.

166

: 00:10:45

I said, okay, but if it does,

like I need you to make me aware.

167

: 00:10:49

Right.

168

: 00:10:50

Like, you know, if you show up as you

or you show up, like it changed and

169

: 00:10:55

fluctuated, it was not like consistently

it was a little difficult to navigate.

170

: 00:11:00

But the answer I gave

her was satisfactory.

171

: 00:11:03

And we did a lot of coaching.

172

: 00:11:04

We did probably like three or

four rounds of coaching together.

173

: 00:11:08

So you're talking about, you know, 40, 40

some odd sessions hours together and it

174

: 00:11:14

never came up, but she wanted to make sure

that I guess if it did in the future, you

175

: 00:11:21

know, 30 sessions in, I wasn't like going,

wait, what, what are you talking about?

176

: 00:11:25

She was very upfront and testing those

waters and I did not present judgment.

177

: 00:11:30

I just went back to, okay, how does this

prevent, how does this affect our journey?

178

: 00:11:34

You know, does anything that you want

to work and work on revolve around that?

179

: 00:11:38

And she said, Oh no, I

just want you to know.

180

: 00:11:40

Okay.

181

: 00:11:41

All right, so let's move on.

182

: 00:11:42

And she was a little surprised.

183

: 00:11:44

She's like, well, that's like the most

benign reaction I've ever gotten.

184

: 00:11:48

And I said to her, well,

it's not my job to react.

185

: 00:11:50

It's my job to say, okay,

this is who you are.

186

: 00:11:53

It's like you telling me you're a

banker or a lawyer, this is who you are.

187

: 00:11:57

John: Yeah.

188

: 00:11:57

Yeah.

189

: 00:11:57

I might be my first thought as well.

190

: 00:11:59

What is your intention in telling me this?

191

: 00:12:01

How does this affect our

coaching relationship?

192

: 00:12:03

And even if I didn't ask it

directly, I'm going to be thinking.

193

: 00:12:06

What is your intention in telling

me this and there may actually be a

194

: 00:12:10

Depending on what's being said there

may be a conversation that has to

195

: 00:12:13

come out of brand about the intention

that's going on there and whether that

196

: 00:12:17

is really what's important I remember

doing a supervised coaching session

197

: 00:12:21

back in my early days of coaching where

it was being trained in nlp coaching

198

: 00:12:26

Angie: sure.

199

: 00:12:27

John: And in the session that the person

was working with there was another nlp

200

: 00:12:31

student we were working with genuine stuff

that we wanted to we would work with in

201

: 00:12:36

coaching sessions So it wasn't just making

stuff up for the sake of the session

202

: 00:12:40

and and this was someone who

wanted to Essentially not get

203

: 00:12:46

any older just to stop aging

204

: 00:12:49

Angie: Okay.

205

: 00:12:49

Peter Pan.

206

: 00:12:50

John: Yeah, and and it was an

interesting session because my

207

: 00:12:54

take on it was the healthy, at the

healthy place to go, is to be okay.

208

: 00:13:02

With aging, because you cannot stop it.

209

: 00:13:05

You can perhaps slow down signs of

aging and maybe you can even slow

210

: 00:13:10

down your aging to some degree.

211

: 00:13:11

And I know there's a lot of, this is

many years on from that, but there's a

212

: 00:13:14

lot of things going on scientifically

now that are helping to do that is

213

: 00:13:17

a, it's a big area of research, but

it's not stopping people from aging.

214

: 00:13:22

So the whole idea that you could

even stop yourself from aging

215

: 00:13:26

was a little ridiculous to me.

216

: 00:13:30

And so I just took the whole thing from

the thing of where I need to get her to as

217

: 00:13:34

a place to being okay with aging or okay

with doing what she can but accepting who

218

: 00:13:41

she is right now rather than resisting

who she is right now and Essentially

219

: 00:13:47

she cried out of the session and said

I can't talk to you I have no rapport

220

: 00:13:51

with you because I wouldn't go along

with what I felt was somewhat delusional

221

: 00:13:59

Angie: Mm.

222

: 00:14:00

John: If that makes sense, I just couldn't

go I just could not go along with that

223

: 00:14:04

Now maybe there's a coach that could I

personally wouldn't say it's ethical as

224

: 00:14:08

a coach to go along with that because

it is somewhat delusional But if you

225

: 00:14:12

think that your client that you're

working with is potentially delusional

226

: 00:14:16

You probably should stop the session.

227

: 00:14:18

You probably should stop the session

because Because it's not going to work

228

: 00:14:22

out They're either not going to come

across the way you want to get them

229

: 00:14:26

to, or you're not going to be able to

really support them in the session.

230

: 00:14:29

And I think that's what I learned from

that, even though the supervisor at times

231

: 00:14:32

said, Oh, no, it was me who broke rapport.

232

: 00:14:34

And I went away from it thinking bullshit.

233

: 00:14:36

It was a ridiculous concept to

want to work on that because she

234

: 00:14:40

cannot stop the aging process.

235

: 00:14:43

Angie: you cannot stop

time, period, right?

236

: 00:14:47

And I don't know, I mean, I'm sure you

did this and maybe you didn't, but you

237

: 00:14:50

know me, I'm like digging, digging,

digging, define this, define aging.

238

: 00:14:54

I'd go through all of that, you know,

the, I look to do that understanding

239

: 00:15:00

because sometimes we can't even, you

know, sometimes clients are so not used

240

: 00:15:04

to being able to be open that they don't

really even know how to articulate.

241

: 00:15:09

Identify first and then

articulate what they're actually

242

: 00:15:12

John: Oh, we did that because I wanted

to really understood what she I wanted to

243

: 00:15:16

really understood what she meant by it.

244

: 00:15:17

And that perhaps I was misunderstanding

245

: 00:15:20

the context of what she was talking about.

246

: 00:15:22

So yeah, we did dig deep into that.

247

: 00:15:24

Angie: so I think I think that's very

I think that's ethically responsible

248

: 00:15:29

to be able to say, you know what?

249

: 00:15:31

Because of where you're sitting

and where your belief system

250

: 00:15:35

being unrealistic, right?

251

: 00:15:37

I mean if I'm 80 years old if I have

somebody who's 75 years old that

252

: 00:15:41

says well I'm gonna be like the first

woman on the moon to do I'm gonna

253

: 00:15:46

say probably not I don't like to

kind of kick people's dreams Right.

254

: 00:15:51

But at the same time, there has to

be a realistic conversation about it.

255

: 00:15:56

And our job at that point,

which is what you did, is to

256

: 00:15:59

kind of really decipher that.

257

: 00:16:00

Is this a reality?

258

: 00:16:02

Is that, or is this like,

again, delusion is a great word.

259

: 00:16:04

I just love that, but yeah.

260

: 00:16:07

And we, we have to be able to identify it.

261

: 00:16:09

I mean, it just makes sense.

262

: 00:16:11

We can't just keep going, okay,

Betty, are you ready to, you

263

: 00:16:14

know, so what's next for you?

264

: 00:16:16

How are you going to get to the moon?

265

: 00:16:17

Absolutely.

266

: 00:16:18

John: the reason why I think that's

so important to bring into this

267

: 00:16:21

psychological safety conversation

is because this isn't just about

268

: 00:16:24

appeasing people in your sessions.

269

: 00:16:28

So Oh, Yeah, absolutely.

270

: 00:16:29

Of course, you believe that.

271

: 00:16:30

And because that is, Enabling it's the

psychology terminology, but you would

272

: 00:16:36

really just be enabling them to consider

continue that Whereas perhaps if you're

273

: 00:16:39

going to continue at all The best thing

you can do is try and help them at least

274

: 00:16:43

define what it is They're talking about

and maybe even examine How realistic

275

: 00:16:50

what they're talking about is but that's

probably the best you could really

276

: 00:16:53

hope for if somebody is that determined

to go on in that sort of manner.

277

: 00:16:58

So I think it's super important

in your coaching session

278

: 00:17:00

to be able to distinguish.

279

: 00:17:01

This isn't just about people not being

able to say anything they want and

280

: 00:17:05

you just be, Oh yeah, that's fine.

281

: 00:17:07

Not

282

: 00:17:07

always.

283

: 00:17:08

Angie: I think too You also have to be

prepared as a coach that when you do

284

: 00:17:13

if you are able to build that trust And

listen because if you really think about

285

: 00:17:19

it Where can people I mean i'm hoping

right my hope is that when people are

286

: 00:17:24

at home with their significance their

family It could be their children their

287

: 00:17:27

spouse whomever their partner That they

have psychological safety there, right?

288

: 00:17:32

To be able to express how they feel in a

healthy way, we hope so that, you know,

289

: 00:17:36

interaction and communication can happen.

290

: 00:17:40

But I think that my experience.

291

: 00:17:43

And i'm i'm going left here i'm going

hard left john so you can come with me I

292

: 00:17:47

hope you do but I think one of the spaces

where I see it coming up with my clients

293

: 00:17:52

the most Where it's difficult for them is

in a work relationship That professional

294

: 00:18:00

relationship is a little bit different.

295

: 00:18:02

I think that There's a lot less

psychological safety in the workplace

296

: 00:18:07

because of politics and, you know,

the way it works, but that creates an

297

: 00:18:14

intense amount of stress and anxiety

for People and it's something they

298

: 00:18:21

have to do every single day, right?

299

: 00:18:25

They can't just say hey I want to take my

partner to dinner We have some important

300

: 00:18:28

things to discuss and I'm not saying

that it's every leader that doesn't

301

: 00:18:31

allow for it But there's this kind of

belief system I think where you know, you

302

: 00:18:38

have to watch what you say and how you

say it because it's just not acceptable

303

: 00:18:43

and There isn't a lot and that I've

experienced this Time and time over

304

: 00:18:49

and over men and women over and over.

305

: 00:18:52

John: All right.

306

: 00:18:52

And even with, say as much as some

companies may outwardly and openly be

307

: 00:18:59

progressive in that sort of sense as

I know we work to have a solid work

308

: 00:19:03

culture with psychological safety and

all of that, just because they say it

309

: 00:19:07

doesn't necessarily mean in practice

that they follow through and do it.

310

: 00:19:11

So I can understand that even if that's a.

311

: 00:19:13

policy, you may still want

to tread carefully unless

312

: 00:19:17

you've actually seen evidence.

313

: 00:19:19

And this is I think the most important

part with this, unless there is evidence

314

: 00:19:23

that there is actually a genuine

culture of psychological safety,

315

: 00:19:27

then you should assume otherwise.

316

: 00:19:30

Because it has to be demonstrated That you

can speak freely without fear of judgment

317

: 00:19:36

or retribution for what gets said that

it ends up coming back on you in some way

318

: 00:19:41

shape or form and I think that's the big

difference like If you're in a company

319

: 00:19:45

that says that they or organization that

says that they do this Is there evidence

320

: 00:19:49

that they actually do follow through?

321

: 00:19:52

And do that because if there isn't

then you may still want to tread

322

: 00:19:55

carefully because it's Otherwise,

it's a bit of a company buzzword.

323

: 00:19:59

Everyone's talking about

psychological safety.

324

: 00:20:01

They know they need to think

about it but it's not always

325

: 00:20:04

being practiced as it should be

326

: 00:20:06

Angie: Yeah.

327

: 00:20:06

No, and I I guess then

that's definitely the truth.

328

: 00:20:09

So let me ask you a question so, You

know in terms of being a coach and

329

: 00:20:15

being aware of creating that What other

skill sets do you think are necessary?

330

: 00:20:21

Cause I do.

331

: 00:20:22

I think it's a skill set.

332

: 00:20:23

I don't think it's something that

always comes naturally to people

333

: 00:20:27

because some coaches want to be the

fixers where they just want to give

334

: 00:20:30

the answers, which you and I have

agreed, that's not really coaching.

335

: 00:20:33

That's more like consulting.

336

: 00:20:36

And maybe, you know, and maybe that's

how their business is set up that they

337

: 00:20:39

do a little bit of both and that's fine.

338

: 00:20:41

But what, what's another

actual skill that you practice?

339

: 00:20:45

Like have you ever caught yourself

not, I'm not going to use the term,

340

: 00:20:51

but like kind of in your mind as a, as

a client might be talking or sharing

341

: 00:20:56

something with you where you, cause

we are naturally judgmental as humans.

342

: 00:21:02

So do you ever find yourself kind

of going in that direction and then

343

: 00:21:07

having to go, no, no, no, no, no.

344

: 00:21:08

I have to reset and recalibrate here.

345

: 00:21:11

John: There were times certainly where

or I've caught myself thinking hold back

346

: 00:21:15

your judgment here You don't know you

don't really know and you don't have

347

: 00:21:19

this person's personal experience You

don't you know even if they're telling

348

: 00:21:23

you a story and it seems like they

perhaps didn't act in the best way or

349

: 00:21:26

they weren't Particularly ethical or some

something that doesn't show them in a

350

: 00:21:31

good light You still have to I think you

still have to try and assume that they

351

: 00:21:36

were doing the best they could You With

the resources that they have available

352

: 00:21:40

to them at that time And sometimes you

have to remind yourself of that and I

353

: 00:21:44

certainly do Sometimes I have to remind

myself of that So you may get somewhere

354

: 00:21:48

down the line with me starting to form

some judgments and then Having to pull

355

: 00:21:52

myself back from it and certainly before

I open certainly before I open my mouth

356

: 00:21:58

Angie: Did you ever have, I have had

this, I've had this several times.

357

: 00:22:03

And it could be on something like,

cause you know, I don't know what

358

: 00:22:07

you do, but you know, I always give

action steps at the end of a session.

359

: 00:22:12

Like, okay, we talked about this and

you know, here's a couple of things and

360

: 00:22:16

this is what you're going to work on.

361

: 00:22:17

But what I've noticed sometimes is that

my clients will come back to me and say,

362

: 00:22:23

like, they'll get into the session and

go, Oh my gosh, Angie, I am so sorry.

363

: 00:22:27

I didn't do this.

364

: 00:22:29

And I could just go, Oh, it's okay.

365

: 00:22:33

Don't worry about it.

366

: 00:22:34

You know, next time.

367

: 00:22:36

And I don't go into that space

because what I'm doing is I'm buying

368

: 00:22:40

in and validating this apology.

369

: 00:22:43

Like they owe me something, right?

370

: 00:22:46

So that's another space where I feel like

it, when you come back, so my answer will

371

: 00:22:51

be, there's no apology necessary here.

372

: 00:22:55

Right.

373

: 00:22:55

Let's talk about what,

what happened, right?

374

: 00:22:58

I, there's no, I, you're

not, you do not answer to me.

375

: 00:23:01

I'm here as your guide.

376

: 00:23:02

Who you need to answer to is yourself.

377

: 00:23:05

So what happened?

378

: 00:23:07

Is there something that could

have been done differently?

379

: 00:23:10

Like I go right back into coaching,

but I try to separate that so that

380

: 00:23:13

they don't feel like, Oh my God,

Angie's going to be so mad at me.

381

: 00:23:18

John: yeah No.

382

: 00:23:19

I will make it clear it doesn't make

a difference to me personally whether

383

: 00:23:23

you've done your action commitments

or not It doesn't but it does make a

384

: 00:23:27

difference to you because it's going

to affect how you feel whether when

385

: 00:23:32

you've done them or not Then what

I don't want you to do is to beat

386

: 00:23:36

yourself up about not having done them.

387

: 00:23:40

It's only

388

: 00:23:40

Angie: a shame or something.

389

: 00:23:41

Go ahead.

390

: 00:23:42

John: The only valuable thing

for us to do Is to take a look at

391

: 00:23:46

what did and didn't happen and see

392

: 00:23:48

if we can learn from it and grow from it

393

: 00:23:50

Angie: Right.

394

: 00:23:51

John: That's it

395

: 00:23:52

Angie: so listen, but when you do that

and when I've done that with clients,

396

: 00:23:57

that will 10 times 10 X, right?

397

: 00:24:00

That trust level goes up so much

higher and it actually allows

398

: 00:24:05

that person to begin to practice.

399

: 00:24:09

Being realistic and honest

and not trying to go.

400

: 00:24:12

I didn't do it.

401

: 00:24:13

Right?

402

: 00:24:13

Like it's always the it's

that shaming or something.

403

: 00:24:17

And again, this isn't psych 101, right?

404

: 00:24:19

We're coaches.

405

: 00:24:21

So

406

: 00:24:21

John: But it's a good example.

407

: 00:24:23

It's a good example of how

much we generally live in fear

408

: 00:24:26

of other people's reactions

409

: 00:24:28

Angie: Yes.

410

: 00:24:29

John: And we we nearly always tend to

imagine other people's reactions as

411

: 00:24:34

being far worse than they usually ever

are unless you have unless you do happen

412

: 00:24:38

to encounter people who are massively

reactionary and Explode at the slightest

413

: 00:24:43

things those people tend to be in tv

dramas because that's what drama is all

414

: 00:24:47

about If you encounter that in real life

It might not be you that's the problem is

415

: 00:24:53

Angie: You know, I, yeah, I actually

had, I had a client years and years

416

: 00:24:57

ago who was unfortunately And I

worked with this person for years

417

: 00:25:05

and this person was suffering through

physical abuse in her relationship.

418

: 00:25:11

And like, I'm not even joking,

probably 36 sessions in.

419

: 00:25:17

That's why I think I kind of referenced

this earlier, kind of came in and

420

: 00:25:20

said, I'm just not feeling it today.

421

: 00:25:23

I had a bad night.

422

: 00:25:24

I don't think I want to

do the coaching call.

423

: 00:25:26

And I'm at that moment, that's,

I'm not going to be like, Oh, okay.

424

: 00:25:30

I'm like, why, why are we

kind of resisting this?

425

: 00:25:32

Anyway, she did end up telling me, I

haven't been completely honest with you.

426

: 00:25:37

And this is what's happening.

427

: 00:25:39

And my knee jerk reaction.

428

: 00:25:42

And I didn't do it, but my thought,

the first thought that came to my head

429

: 00:25:46

was, what did I not do that, like, why

didn't I have the space, hold enough

430

: 00:25:52

space for her to come to me sooner?

431

: 00:25:54

And I right quickly kind of put

that out of my head saying, it's

432

: 00:25:57

not my responsibility to make her,

I can't drag everything out of her.

433

: 00:26:02

And it took her that 30 some

odd hours to feel comfortable

434

: 00:26:06

enough to, to share that level.

435

: 00:26:09

So understand what my point in bringing

this up is, is that, you know, you

436

: 00:26:13

don't get all the trust right away.

437

: 00:26:16

When I say trust is built and well,

it's earned and then it's built, right?

438

: 00:26:21

The more time this person spent with me,

The more trust she had in me and it took

439

: 00:26:28

her that many hours to be able to come

forward with that information and part

440

: 00:26:34

of me, of course, wanted to scream out.

441

: 00:26:36

You can tell me anything.

442

: 00:26:38

This is the safe space, right?

443

: 00:26:39

I wanted to say that I did not.

444

: 00:26:42

But what I recognize is that

nothing was really wrong.

445

: 00:26:47

It was, that's the time it took.

446

: 00:26:49

That was the level of trust

required for her to get to that

447

: 00:26:53

level of vulnerability with me.

448

: 00:26:55

And that was another

big aha moment for me.

449

: 00:26:58

Like the trust doesn't come in like all

at once in any one particular session.

450

: 00:27:03

It really does stack.

451

: 00:27:04

John: No matter how

well you hold the space.

452

: 00:27:06

Some people are going to feel comfortable

right away and they're just gonna You know

453

: 00:27:11

as you said i'm just gonna tell you the

most intimate details right off the bat

454

: 00:27:16

Some people are like that It's like they

get that trust sense very early on and

455

: 00:27:20

they're going to go straight in there and

it may be even be Situational it might

456

: 00:27:23

not be every case that they do that.

457

: 00:27:24

There's what the hell?

458

: 00:27:24

Maybe just with you they connected and

they feel comfortable enough to do that.

459

: 00:27:28

And some people are going to take a longer

time to develop the level of trust that

460

: 00:27:32

they need to get to And that could be all

sorts of things that you may have to wait

461

: 00:27:36

to really find out what the trust issues

are And what's stopping them from and

462

: 00:27:41

what's holding them back from being able

to have that deeper trusting relationship

463

: 00:27:45

But if they're sticking with it and

they're continuing to work with you It

464

: 00:27:48

should come and so trust yourself as a

coach here to keep holding the space and

465

: 00:27:53

it doesn't mean you're not doing anything

That you're doing something wrong as a

466

: 00:27:56

coach It just means you may have to be

patient as you're saying and just hold out

467

: 00:28:01

Angie: Exactly.

468

: 00:28:02

I was just thinking that I'm like,

you know, I think one of the things

469

: 00:28:06

that we're so interested as coaches or

we're so focused on building rapport

470

: 00:28:11

because it's so important to, you

know, to the process that we lose

471

: 00:28:16

patience and I think that if we're

really doing it right, we are patient.

472

: 00:28:21

I mean, again, we different shapes,

every client has, you know, it

473

: 00:28:24

comes in different shapes and sizes.

474

: 00:28:25

Some people you can work with for

10 years and really just still

475

: 00:28:31

scratch the surface because we're so

complex as human beings and there's

476

: 00:28:35

still positive work being done.

477

: 00:28:37

But at the same time, I think we as

coaches lack that patience to Sometimes

478

: 00:28:43

because we're just trying to get to

it, you know anyway, so yes, I think,

479

: 00:28:48

you know, one of the other best ways,

great ways to build that trust is to be

480

: 00:28:54

patient and to meet people where they are.

481

: 00:28:58

You know, if you're standing

on the ledge with somebody, you

482

: 00:29:02

know, you can't just go, come on,

we're going to jump that scary.

483

: 00:29:06

Like, I don't like, no,

I'm looking over a ledge.

484

: 00:29:08

I don't think I like that.

485

: 00:29:10

You know, that's not going to work for me.

486

: 00:29:13

John: I feel that if you understand what

psychological safety is and why it matters

487

: 00:29:18

why it's important We should be doing or

we can not just in our coaching sessions,

488

: 00:29:23

but in many parts of our lives as possible

to have at least a sense of that's what's

489

: 00:29:29

there, to be able to try and do our best

to try and create Environments and a

490

: 00:29:34

feeling around us where people feel That

they do feel a level of psychological

491

: 00:29:40

safety that they don't feel Judged they

don't feel criticized that we can do

492

: 00:29:44

that in many parts of our lives We can

you know, even if it is in professional

493

: 00:29:47

places where we don't have network.

494

: 00:29:49

There is no Guarantee of no cultures

being worked on or psychological safety

495

: 00:29:54

Maybe we can at least start to create

some of that in our teams or with our

496

: 00:29:59

groups of people So that people have

some degree of that and that can be

497

: 00:30:04

you know, Could potentially influence

have a greater influence out into other

498

: 00:30:09

areas and groups as well I think it

undoubtedly will so I think this is a

499

: 00:30:13

really important topic Maybe you have

some thoughts on psychological safety

500

: 00:30:16

that we haven't covered today Or maybe

you have some questions that you'd like

501

: 00:30:19

to ask me and end here at the coaching

clinic you're very welcome to do that.

502

: 00:30:22

You can Send us a voicemail or a

video message at on LinkedIn, and

503

: 00:30:28

you can find both of our profiles

in the show notes for this episode.

504

: 00:30:32

And you can also leave us

a voicemail, go to www.

505

: 00:30:35

speakpipe.

506

: 00:30:37

com forward slash the coaching clinic.

507

: 00:30:39

podcast, and you can leave us up to,

I think up to 90 seconds of voicemail

508

: 00:30:43

for free with your question, your

comments and anything you'd like me and

509

: 00:30:48

Angie to address in a future episode.

510

: 00:30:49

And we will feature you on the show,

but we're going to close the coaching

511

: 00:30:52

clinic for today and we'll be back

again to open our doors next Wednesday.

512

: 00:30:57

See you then.

513

: 00:30:58

Angie: Bye for now.