Public Speaking: The Secret Weapon for Coaching Growth

John: 00:00:01

Do you think there's a synergy between coaching

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and professional speaking?

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Angie: To some degree.

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Yeah.

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Why do you ask?

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John: I have this idea that

speaking could be a great way

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to feed my coaching practice.

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Angie: Ooh, I could see that, but

also I think there are some clear

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distinctions between the two.

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John: Oh, fair enough.

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Let's dive in and see what

our audience think too.

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Angie: Ah, that's why we're here.

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Let's start the show.

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Yeah.

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John: Angie our audience our listener

could not have really two more

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qualified people to talk about this

today I'm happy to say we are both

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very experienced in the speaking

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world and we've been Both been very

experienced in coaching other people

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in this area as well And so let's put

our knowledge and experience to work

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for our listener here And maybe just

start off we're talking about why

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You Coaching by speaking

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from the stages is relevant

and important for coaches.

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Angie: I think I was

really surprised by that.

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That I had that epiphany myself

of, I didn't, I did not initially

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think that there was synergy.

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I, it never dawned on me.

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Which I know sounds a little crazy

because I started out specifically

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in the coaching space, right?

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I was a one to one coach and

trainer and all of a sudden, right?

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The idea came to life that I

could actually get more clients

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by doing speaking events.

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so that was how it began for me,

but still I had no idea that there

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was a way to unite those two ideas.

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Well,

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John: Realization, yeah, the

connections came along the way

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to started to join the dots.

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And when I realized that I was going

to events to learn how to be a better

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coach or to do particular personal and

professional development related things

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There were people on stages talking

training teaching whatever and I started

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to make the connections that okay that

is actually part of coaching as well.

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That is A really important thing to be

able to get up on the stage in front

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of people and I think a lot of people

don't want to do that bit because

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their coaching often is generally

like the one to one thing Or we have

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our group coaching which we probably

usually do online these days But

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getting up on a stage in front of other

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people still feels Very much like

you're exposed and highly vulnerable in

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those situations and people are, very

scared of doing that yeah, I it's such

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a critical part I think now of coaching

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And it's even expected That you should

be able to get up and talk about

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what you do who you help how you

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help and things like that And to do that

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competently.

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Angie: I think that's the key word is

competently, I think again you said

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this in the beginning in our intro

today that, we're very experienced

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in this, cause we are right.

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We've trained.

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people, coaches, and even people

who are already speakers on how to

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be better speakers, how to attract

and how to have the conversation.

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It's funny because I think our

experiences were similar, that

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so many people think it's just,

I just love, people just love me.

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That's why I want to be a speaker.

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They, I, somebody told me once that I

have a great way of relating to people?

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and poof, they think they have.

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A speaking business and I think that's

the point that coaching and speaking,

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although very similar in terms of

you can't just get up and talk.

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Nobody wants to just hear you talk.

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There has to be some kind

of mission behind it.

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There has to be some solution,

some problem that you're

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solving so that people are.

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Sitting in that audience on the edge

of their seat, if you will, waiting

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for you to solve that problem for them.

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So it's almost to me, like in my mind,

we talked about one to one coaching,

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then we talk about group coaching.

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and for me, I think of that speaking space

as the probably highest level of coaching.

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Or highest level of group coaching

because you are still up there coaching.

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You're just doing it probably

with a different format and

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energy and all of those things.

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John: And that is also a point where

it becomes particularly relevant

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that you have your niche area that

you know what you're talking about

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and who you want to be talking about

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that to that you have things

like your framework that you have

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maybe your book maybe you have at

least your coaching philosophy and

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if you don't have clarity on those things

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you just doesn't mean you can't get up and

speak still it just means it's maybe not

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going to be that cohesive at this stage

whilst you're still Figuring those things

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out, but it will make sense to do it

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But do you think paid speaking

is important for coaches or

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should coaches be looking more at

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unpaid stuff?

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Angie: I think that depends.

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I'm sorry.

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I know that's like the ambiguous

answer that nobody wants to hear.

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For example, if somebody comes to

me with an opportunity and says,

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Hey, we're looking for somebody

to speak on such and such a topic.

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And, we found you're relevant here.

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But it's, it's not for profit.

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You're not making any money.

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We're not paying for it.

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There's no budget.

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I, my first question is

how many are in attendance?

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That's my first question.

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Because if I have the opportunity to

get in front of, sometimes it's been,

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thousands of people like, Oh, we're

having our big conference and there's

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going to be 5, 000 women in attendance.

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I will tell you that I will

walk to that conference to

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get in front of 5, 000 women.

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Right.

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Because of all the opportunity it creates

within my business structure, if they're

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asking me to do it for free and it's like

a busy time of the year for me, I have to

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really make a business decision on that.

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I can't say yes to everything.

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So I think.

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Here's the answer.

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I think it's a very personal choice to

decide when, where, and how you would

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do a complimentary speaking event.

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What about you?

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What do you do?

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John: I take the perspective

of one of my business coaches

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over the years.

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And she said She's a

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very successful speaker herself.

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She

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said Never speak for

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free Never speak for free and that

doesn't mean that you're always going

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to get paid for every event that you

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do But you have to be able to

see a clear return on investment

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for doing it.

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It has to be Very obvious what the purpose

is doing that and sometimes that might

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be because you want to give you just

want to give you want To serve you

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want to help you get paid that way

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you get the good feeling.

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Okay It's not what we traditionally think

of as getting paid It's not money in the

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bank But another other times it might

be that you get to speak in front of the

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right audience And you know that you get

it you get invited to go to event where

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you may not be getting paid for it They

may cover some costs for you, but you're

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going to be with an audience of your ideal

target avatar Other times it may actually

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be that you're not going to get paid But

you're going to be able to network and

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you're going to be very well thought of

you know You're going to be considered for

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future opportunity And get your face seen

or maybe even get the media opportunity

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you want or as we speak as we watch it

Maybe you're going to get your demo video

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Stuff recorded there And have some content

that you can use from a live event As

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media for yourself You There could be a

number of reasons for doing it, but not

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just speaking for free, not just getting

up on any old stage, but being intentional

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and practical about it as well.

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Angie: Listen, I think you just

gave our audience, our listeners,

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a really big coaching moment.

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Right understanding And defining the word

free because automatically when you say

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the word free People, you know immediately

apply that to monetary free, right?

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so you mentioned return on

investment That's really what we're

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talking about here is, you being

able to decide Is this worth it?

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Is this does this feel

like it's the right space?

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Because again free isn't always about

money It's, is there a reason why?

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For example I've gone back and spoken

many times at my college alma mater,

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just because, and I've, they've had a

budget, and I've accepted the, it's an,

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it's not a big budget, but I've accepted

it because Of the fact that, I'm here a

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couple of decades later, speaking in the

same space where I was once learning.

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So to me, that's just a

personal decision to do that.

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Is it my norm?

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No.

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So I think that our listeners should

very closely pay attent Very close

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attention, I should say, to What

you said about return on investment,

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that's really what the focus should be.

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It shouldn't be about, is this free?

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Am I doing it for no, you

can't look at it that way.

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John: In the early days, in your

early days as a speaker, maybe free is

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getting your experience, getting your

practice sessions in without having the

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fear of people have paid you for this.

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So you know, there's an expectation

that you have To deliver it.

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Extra professional value because you

have to give them bang for their buck.

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So you might want to take that pressure

off and just get the experience great

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That's still not speaking for free.

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You're getting what you need out of

this And so it's saying this isn't just

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saying yes to every opportunity that

potentially comes up to get up on a stage

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Angie: I think it goes

back to also, right?

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Why?

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What is the synergy between

coaching and speaking?

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So kind of what I mentioned

earlier, I feel like I

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accidentally fell into speaking.

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Although if I think about it, having

been a high level trainer for so many

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years and for different companies doing

different things, I didn't realize that.

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As they were saying to me throw

some of that Angie spirit into it.

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I was like, what?

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And I just did that.

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But basically what I was doing

was creating my brand, my rhythm.

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I wasn't just training people, right?

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I literally was speaking.

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It became more motivational as time

passed, which is how I kind of fell into

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this and realized to my point at the very

beginning of today's episode that I'm

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able to utilize speaking as a way to And

it's not just to get one to one clients.

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It's just to expand myself to get in

front of so many more people at one time

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so that people are calling me and saying,

Hey, I saw you here or I saw this video

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and would you come and do this with

our organization or our association?

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So it's really a great way to just

get brought in that and expand.

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The footprint of what you're doing.

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John: I do think it's It's been the

case for centuries that being able

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to get up on a stage and speak well

is a sign of, firstly, it's a sign of

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intelligence, but also it's a signal

for respect and expertise as well.

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It's something that has been referred

to as the expert threshold that the,

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By virtue of you being on a stage a

lot of the time people assume you are

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an expert and you know that you know

more Probably than they do may not

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always be the case, but that is the

general that is the general assumption

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there and Being able to do that.

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To be eloquent to be entertaining to

be powerful with your words when you

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speak about Has always been one of the

most Influential things a person can do.

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People really take notice when someone

is a great Communicator as a as a speaker

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as professional speaker a public speaker.

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Angie: I think that lends itself

to the idea that, when you and I've

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had, this is going to go back again.

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We've had that experience where, we've

coached and trained people and it's a

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little it's, if you're not already a

speaker and it's something that you're

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considering doing, or maybe you're

listening to this and you never thought

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about it and you're saying, hey, maybe

I should try this like speaking thing.

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Yeah.

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I would certainly advise that you

get yourself somebody like even John,

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by the way, who trains people on

specifically how to be a better presenter.

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It's not something you just

throw yourself onto a stage

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and say, Oh, now I'm a speaker.

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It is a, an art form because it's

so the dynamic of it is so different

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than what you might be doing.

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If you're an amazing coach

on a one to 10, you're a 12.

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It's still a different space.

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In terms of being able to

have that influence and to

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your point, John, it's true.

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The minute people see us on a stage,

there's this assumption that we are

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an expert in something and that we

have the authority to be there, right?

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We have the right to be there.

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And that's not always the case because

each and every one of us has had

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our first And of course, if we look

back on earlier video and things of

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ourselves, we can kind of go, Oh, my

gosh, what is social media doing to me?

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This should be somewhere

burned in the archives.

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We don't ever want to see it again

because we learn and we grow.

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But I think at the end of the day, there

needs to be the understanding that if

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you are going to either start becoming

a speaker or looking to incorporate

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speaking into your coaching practice,

that, there are some things that you

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really do have to learn how to do, so that

you can compete with the big guys from

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Almost day one, like, how would you feel

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if you knew then what you know now, right?

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If you had somebody, this fairy,

this speaking fairy, god person that

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could, sprinkle you with the pixie

dust, like how, what would have

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changed in your speaking career?

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John: I would have gotten on bigger

stages a lot faster, but that's just

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the reality of it and would undoubtedly

have a bigger profile than I do.

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Angie: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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John: I mean, those are just some of

the things that I can think of, but yeah

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but they're quite, they're kind of huge.

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And.

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You're correct in what you're saying

about if you actually really want to

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be able to compete with the bigwigs in

speaking or in coaching, I should say,

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really the names that you probably have

come across, or the people whose books

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you might be familiar with, or courses

you've attended, they're nearly all.

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I can't think of an exception

to this and you're very good

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speakers and presenters as well.

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Angie: You know what's interesting?

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I think that what makes a great

speaker is really dependent upon

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the message in the audience.

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Right?

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We're not just as we're not,

I'm not a coach for all people.

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You're not a coach for all people.

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I think it's the same within speaking.

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I personally am probably way too

animated to get up and speak in front

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of A technology space, that person,

that avatar, because they just probably

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run out like their heads are on fire.

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Like she's just way too much, right?

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Because I am very myself.

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I'm not somebody who gets up and

starts to speak as though I'm standing

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behind the podium and I'm stiff.

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I am wearing sneakers.

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Sometimes I'm all over the place.

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I am, I'm interacting with the audience.

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So you really kind of have to understand

and decide for yourself like, who are you?

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What's the image, because you look at like

you said, some of the bigger names that

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are out there, some of them are rough.

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I mean, really rough.

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I won't go into names, but they're

But they're still super impactful.

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Then there are others who are a lot

more polished, but still impactful.

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So you almost really need to figure out

truly like what, again, this is all going

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to be, part of who you're talking to,

what the message is, but kind of figuring

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that out earlier on will definitely

help make that impact when you do get

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up on a stage, can't just get up on

any stage talking about any old thing.

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Who are you and what is

it that you're doing?

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Right,

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John: it does make a difference when

we're talking about this as to who

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you are speaking to And who your

message is for and you're right.

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We're not right for everybody even if

you have that topic that is everyone

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could benefit from this great Everyone

maybe could benefit from it but not

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everyone is going to and one of the

reasons for that is because There are

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going to be people who don't like the

messenger And they don't like the way

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the messenger puts the message and that's

okay We don't need everyone to like us.

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It's actually a good thing because there

are also going to be those people who Do

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get it and do like you and really resonate

with what you're saying and they are your

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people they are your audience And so you

should really want some people Not to

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like you and I got asked the other day

what would you say if someone came up

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to you and said I don't like you I said

good You I would say good that would be

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my instinctive first response to that and

not in a I'm, happy you don't like me kind

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of in the sort of way, but more of a But

more of a good not everyone is supposed

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to like me and I don't need everybody to

like me I don't want everybody to like me.

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It's okay that you don't like me.

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i'm cool with it.

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Great.

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Angie: I would say this, Okay.

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So I feel like if everybody likes

you, my perspective is that if

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everybody likes you, to me, that's

indicative of the idea that you

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don't really have a strong message.

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Because it's like you're relating

to tune, until you become like

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the Pope or somebody like really

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John: to have changed

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Angie: Gandhi Okay, like where it's

oh, you know I have this universal

309

: 00:18:51

feeling and even then there were

people who were like, I don't believe

310

: 00:18:55

in that I don't dislike you, but

it doesn't I don't believe in that.

311

: 00:18:58

So that just then tells me that

you're not deep enough Right?

312

: 00:19:01

That, that it's still the

net is still way too wide.

313

: 00:19:04

Do you know what I mean?

314

: 00:19:06

I believe that if everybody

really loves you, i'm always

315

: 00:19:09

going to ask that question.

316

: 00:19:10

Really?

317

: 00:19:11

What did they really love about you?

318

: 00:19:13

Because sometimes they get caught

up in like the person and the

319

: 00:19:17

delivery more than the message.

320

: 00:19:20

So I'm always curious that, it's

not that everybody likes you.

321

: 00:19:24

It's just that you want to

be able to know that you are

322

: 00:19:27

connecting with the right audience.

323

: 00:19:29

John: I've I've been at personal

development events before where i've seen

324

: 00:19:35

people getting up and walking out on the

first day of a two and a half or three day

325

: 00:19:40

event and you think oh that's terrible,

but it's not that it's not for them.

326

: 00:19:44

It's not right for them they need to go

where is right for them And it's like some

327

: 00:19:49

people may find themselves in smaller much

smaller kind of settings and audiences

328

: 00:19:55

where it might feel more awkward to do

that, but Still you still have to get

329

: 00:19:58

yourself into the right rooms with the

right voices and Not everything is going

330

: 00:20:02

to be right for You have to be okay that's

the case that it's always going to be

331

: 00:20:06

that some people no matter what you do

Are not going to like you or are going

332

: 00:20:10

to criticize you or they're going to

have negative feedback and responses to

333

: 00:20:14

you That's cool But for those people who

don't for the people who really connect

334

: 00:20:18

with you and get your message and what

you're all about serve those people and

335

: 00:20:23

let the other people You know get there

when they're ready or whatever let them

336

: 00:20:27

be free fly away Enjoy your life and

no bad feeling or anything like that.

337

: 00:20:32

Just It's okay.

338

: 00:20:33

It's all good

339

: 00:20:34

Angie: No, I think learning

to be okay with it is fine.

340

: 00:20:37

I've had plenty of conversations

where people are, discovery calls,

341

: 00:20:41

if you will, where it wasn't

the right fit at the moment.

342

: 00:20:45

And that's for both coaching and for

speaking, no, we're sorry, this isn't

343

: 00:20:50

really our focus right now for what

we want at our conference, right?

344

: 00:20:54

Our annual conference, we really want

something that's more that this and this.

345

: 00:20:59

And if that's not something that I

can deliver for them, I have to bow

346

: 00:21:03

out and say, great, you know what?

347

: 00:21:04

Keep me in mind when you're talking about

this or this, because I'm your person.

348

: 00:21:08

I'm the person for that.

349

: 00:21:10

So it's good it's really a

big networking pool anyway.

350

: 00:21:14

So yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like

being able to comp, utilize speaking

351

: 00:21:21

to compliment a coaching practice.

352

: 00:21:25

Is awesome.

353

: 00:21:25

It's almost to me like now that I

know better is why wouldn't you?

354

: 00:21:32

John: My thinking here's where I start

with this, as well I think most people

355

: 00:21:37

Unless you're just doing one to one

sessions or group sessions, and you

356

: 00:21:41

don't want to do anything else Then you

will probably want to consider things

357

: 00:21:46

like speaking as an at least as an

opportunity to get yourself more clients

358

: 00:21:51

But but certainly if you want to do if

you want to have your own business doing

359

: 00:21:55

this and grow and expand as a coach You

need to have speaking as part of your

360

: 00:21:59

professional ecosystem To have those

like higher level things like speaking

361

: 00:22:05

events, like having a book, like having

maybe a podcast or a YouTube channel or

362

: 00:22:11

whatever it is that you want to have.

363

: 00:22:13

I think they are more higher level

things that you need to have the

364

: 00:22:17

business foundation stuff probably.

365

: 00:22:19

At least figured out first of all

But I do think they're valuable and

366

: 00:22:23

important parts of a professional

ecosystem for most professional

367

: 00:22:27

coaches who have their own business

368

: 00:22:29

Angie: ecosystem folks because I think

the days to your point of I'm just gonna

369

: 00:22:35

sit and have my quiet little one to

one practice and I have no regrets by

370

: 00:22:39

the way And that's all it was for me.

371

: 00:22:41

That was okay Because that's all I saw

speaking has evolved Greatly in the last,

372

: 00:22:50

say, decade or so, decade and a half, and

it is, I feel like it's almost essential.

373

: 00:23:00

Feed the ecosystem I love

that you use that word, right?

374

: 00:23:03

Think of it as it's not just a singular

space anymore There's a whole bunch of

375

: 00:23:08

things going on and there's ways for those

spaces to feed each other, you know I'm a

376

: 00:23:15

believer and John, you know this like I'm

a believer of have I don't say as many,

377

: 00:23:21

but I like having multiple income streams.

378

: 00:23:25

I don't like to rely on one

specific space because if there's

379

: 00:23:30

going to be ebbs and flow, right?

380

: 00:23:32

It's sometimes one might,

speaking might be hot.

381

: 00:23:35

It's the season.

382

: 00:23:36

And then it might not be.

383

: 00:23:38

I don't want a cyclical business having

speaking and coaching at the same time

384

: 00:23:45

creates that opportunity for you to

have those multiple income streams where

385

: 00:23:50

although they feed each other, they're

not necessarily reliant on each other.

386

: 00:23:54

I think that helps to create longevity.

387

: 00:23:57

If you really want to be successful,

kind of looking at it as a business

388

: 00:24:01

strategy rather than, Oh my

gosh, now I have to be a speaker.

389

: 00:24:06

Not everybody wants to get up and

be a Tony or, a whomever, right?

390

: 00:24:09

The big stage.

391

: 00:24:10

Not everybody aspires to that.

392

: 00:24:12

I would tell you this

is going to be funny.

393

: 00:24:15

If I knew then what I know now,

he and I would be sharing a stage.

394

: 00:24:21

I believe that in my heart.

395

: 00:24:23

I believe that if I had the foresight.

396

: 00:24:26

To see where the industries were

going, I would have paid closer

397

: 00:24:30

attention and been much more serious,

I think, about what I was doing,

398

: 00:24:37

but I missed that boat a little bit.

399

: 00:24:39

So it's easy for me to go back

now and say, okay, now let's,

400

: 00:24:42

how do I create this ecosystem?

401

: 00:24:44

I love that.

402

: 00:24:45

Everybody hear that?

403

: 00:24:46

Ecosystem.

404

: 00:24:47

That's what your business needs

to look like if you want it to be.

405

: 00:24:52

a long term and successful Business

that can rely it's self reliant

406

: 00:24:58

John: Here's the other thing because

there are people who are going

407

: 00:25:01

to want that high level thing.

408

: 00:25:04

Maybe they want to Be competing with

people like Tony or Brendan or say

409

: 00:25:11

Harv, he's kind of retired somewhat now.

410

: 00:25:13

And but, that there are those

programs are still being sold

411

: 00:25:17

from live events from stages.

412

: 00:25:19

I recently interviewed a guy called Mitch

Carson who does exactly this he sells

413

: 00:25:24

programs From the stage and he's actually

selling his program about how to sell

414

: 00:25:28

programs on the stage ironically enough

but you know talking about things like you

415

: 00:25:32

can sell if you have a Program, of course

a program live events and you want to

416

: 00:25:37

sell big bucks on those They're big groups

of people you get on stages and share

417

: 00:25:41

stages where you can actually sell those

programs But no The reality is selling

418

: 00:25:46

from the stage is very different to just

speaking from the stage so this is these

419

: 00:25:50

are not necessarily the same things that

we're talking about here most times if

420

: 00:25:53

you're getting booked as a keynote or, as

a speaker An event or a workshop leader

421

: 00:25:58

you won't be put in the opportunity to

be able to Do that kind of what they call

422

: 00:26:04

a bookstore where you're presenting your

course or your program and getting people

423

: 00:26:07

to just buy it that rarely happens unless

it's been agreed up front and if it hasn't

424

: 00:26:11

been agreed up front You They won't thank

you for it and they won't book you again.

425

: 00:26:14

they probably won't they'll probably

They you get a stinky review from them.

426

: 00:26:18

So so don't do that.

427

: 00:26:19

Don't piss people off with this but For

those places where you will Or wait,

428

: 00:26:24

if that's something you want to do

then absolutely you can set that up or

429

: 00:26:27

maybe even create your own events or

get Find those opportunities to get up

430

: 00:26:32

and sell but make sure you know what

you're doing That you believe in what

431

: 00:26:35

you're selling and that you know how to

deliver a good bookstore And I would say

432

: 00:26:40

if you don't One of the best resources I

could probably give you is to check out

433

: 00:26:44

some of Russell Brunson's books because

he actually goes through exactly how

434

: 00:26:49

he creates a bookstore for his events.

435

: 00:26:52

I can't remember which one he is but

you know his events with all the sort

436

: 00:26:54

of like dot com secrets and things

like that he has one that where he

437

: 00:26:58

goes through the whole process of

exactly what he puts in a bookstore.

438

: 00:27:03

It's if that's where you want

to be and want to be competing

439

: 00:27:05

you should learn how to do that.

440

: 00:27:07

Angie: Listen I think it comes down to

what you're saying what you just said I

441

: 00:27:10

love all of that and I hope that people

are listening really carefully because

442

: 00:27:15

the landscape has changed In terms of

gaining access to new clients, right?

443

: 00:27:21

To filling a pipeline of coaching

clients and being a speaker is not

444

: 00:27:27

only it's got that warm synergy.

445

: 00:27:29

It's got that, but it is

446

: 00:27:31

not enough anymore because there's so

much competition So you have to know

447

: 00:27:36

and believe and understand that Your

competitors are using the stage to feed

448

: 00:27:41

their business, to feed the ecosystem.

449

: 00:27:44

It's like putting the right things where

coral can live and where it can't live.

450

: 00:27:49

So you really have to make sure that

you're doing all of the same things, even,

451

: 00:27:53

and again, this doesn't mean that you're

looking to be like this top notch speaker.

452

: 00:27:58

Maybe we end up having a different.

453

: 00:28:00

Episode where we talk about speaking

specifically, since you and I have so much

454

: 00:28:05

experience there as it is, but in terms

of creating that coaching practice that

455

: 00:28:11

is sustainable, I do, I really believe you

have to incorporate all the things that

456

: 00:28:17

are going to help bring you those clients.

457

: 00:28:22

Regularly fill the pipeline.

458

: 00:28:24

Yeah.

459

: 00:28:26

John: thing that speaking will

do is generate referrals for you.

460

: 00:28:31

And we know how referrals are the

lifeblood of a coaching business.

461

: 00:28:35

So we absolutely want those.

462

: 00:28:37

It will get you speaking referrals

and it'll get you coaching referrals.

463

: 00:28:41

And what I'm talking about, not

necessarily selling from the stage.

464

: 00:28:44

If you don't have that kind of.

465

: 00:28:46

Agreement and platform that doesn't mean

you can't mention that you're a coach or

466

: 00:28:50

you can't mention that you have coaching

programs or that you can't give your

467

: 00:28:53

audience a place to come and find out more

about you and what's available and what

468

: 00:28:57

else you offer But those sorts of things

are usually fine But when I talk what I'm

469

: 00:29:02

saying is, like you probably shouldn't

do is, say i've got this course and

470

: 00:29:06

program Maybe i've got this ten thousand

dollar program and i'm going to sell it

471

: 00:29:09

in an event where they've come and paid

me to speak But we haven't talked about

472

: 00:29:13

Me selling my program to their audience.

473

: 00:29:15

They're not going to thank you for that.

474

: 00:29:16

They're not going to like it

Usually the agreements have to be

475

: 00:29:19

made for that and often because

those are kind of events that will

476

: 00:29:22

allow that They want a cut as well.

477

: 00:29:24

They're putting you on their stage.

478

: 00:29:26

They're often paying for you to be

there They want their share of what you

479

: 00:29:31

make for them from the end stage Which

is another reason why I say if you're

480

: 00:29:33

going to do that you need to be damn

good at it And should probably get some

481

: 00:29:38

professional coaching and mentoring in

482

: 00:29:40

Angie: absolutely.

483

: 00:29:41

I don't really think anybody even if

you're some amazing articulate because

484

: 00:29:45

I think when people think about speaking

They think about what they know is

485

: 00:29:49

can I get up in front of people?

486

: 00:29:51

Am I comfortable?

487

: 00:29:52

but they don't really understand

the logistics of the of doing

488

: 00:29:59

some things with that intention.

489

: 00:30:01

It's not sometimes it's not

like what you know, it's who you

490

: 00:30:03

know, and it's how you know it.

491

: 00:30:05

It's how you know it and I

think your point is very valid.

492

: 00:30:10

Having somebody to take you

through that journey and help you

493

: 00:30:14

incorporate this is I think essential.

494

: 00:30:18

And I also think it's going to help

you achieve those goals much more

495

: 00:30:24

quickly than if you just go it alone.

496

: 00:30:26

And again, you and I've experienced

that where we've seen people who

497

: 00:30:30

are like, No, I'm really great.

498

: 00:30:32

And I just need this.

499

: 00:30:34

No, you don't.

500

: 00:30:35

Right?

501

: 00:30:35

No, you need a lot more than that.

502

: 00:30:37

John: Yeah, much like me, you may

probably have come across a bunch of

503

: 00:30:40

people who've done TED more likely TEDx

talks, really, rather than TED talks.

504

: 00:30:45

TED talks are very hard to get

into, but TEDx is somewhat easier.

505

: 00:30:49

Many people can access those,

even as not being professional

506

: 00:30:53

speakers, or not necessarily having

a book, or anything like that.

507

: 00:30:57

If you know the right people, or you get

in the right circle, or you know how to

508

: 00:31:00

access that, you can get on that stage.

509

: 00:31:03

But I know a lot of TEDx speakers and

I know TEDx coaches as well, people

510

: 00:31:07

who coach people specifically for

being able to go and deliver those.

511

: 00:31:10

and what they will always say is it's

not something you should do without

512

: 00:31:14

being prepared to go and do it.

513

: 00:31:16

It's not going to benefit you and your

business if you get up on stage and

514

: 00:31:20

a TEDx, which is going to be recorded

and broadcast and available globally

515

: 00:31:27

on YouTube and on the TED website.

516

: 00:31:30

It's not going to benefit you if you get

up there and you deliver a flop of a talk

517

: 00:31:36

Angie: it will make or break you.

518

: 00:31:37

If you are, If You are able to

get onto some bigger stages.

519

: 00:31:42

I don't know though, I'm actually

questioning that as I say it.

520

: 00:31:45

I don't really know if it's A

belief of the size of the stage.

521

: 00:31:49

Your reputation starts when you start.

522

: 00:31:52

So I think you can flop in the very

beginning, although at that stage

523

: 00:31:57

itself I think has, is more forgiving.

524

: 00:32:00

It is more forgiving than being,

broadcast globally, from a TED talk.

525

: 00:32:06

John: A big public flop is probably not a

526

: 00:32:08

Angie: No, it's definitely

527

: 00:32:09

John: You know probably build up to that

really and that's really what i'm saying

528

: 00:32:13

is I don't just think it's only the high

level or the big stages that are worth

529

: 00:32:17

going for And we often say with even with

things like being a podcast guest which

530

: 00:32:21

is a form of Professional speaking really

in a sense You may not always get in front

531

: 00:32:26

of hundreds and thousands of people and

think That's what makes it worthwhile.

532

: 00:32:30

If you're getting in front of the right

audiences You don't need it to be hundreds

533

: 00:32:34

and thousands of people You just need

it to be the right people And it's the

534

: 00:32:37

same with the stages that you get on

as well You just need them to be the

535

: 00:32:40

right stages with the right audiences

Which is why i'm often very skeptical

536

: 00:32:44

of these places where they want speakers

to pay to be on stage And I think for

537

: 00:32:50

the most part those are probably Those

are scams, maybe not all of them.

538

: 00:32:54

That might be somewhat unfair.

539

: 00:32:56

There are some that are legit, but

you need to know what, if you're

540

: 00:33:00

going to pay to be on a stage, what

are you going to get out of it?

541

: 00:33:04

Is it going to be, is it

going to be a random audience?

542

: 00:33:07

Or is it going to be an audience

full of people and maybe even

543

: 00:33:10

professional connections that I could

super benefit you and give you those

544

: 00:33:14

opportunities to get more of that?

545

: 00:33:16

Now, is it actually an investment

in yourself or is it just kind of

546

: 00:33:20

a scam and those are out there.

547

: 00:33:22

So you have to

548

: 00:33:23

Angie: You do have to be careful.

549

: 00:33:24

You do.

550

: 00:33:24

I actually, just the other

day, this is so funny.

551

: 00:33:27

I actually had somebody reach out to

me on LinkedIn and they were like,

552

: 00:33:31

Hey, would you like to be part of this?

553

: 00:33:32

Speaking opportunity?

554

: 00:33:34

The name of it.

555

: 00:33:35

Blah, blah, blah.

556

: 00:33:36

Summit 2025.

557

: 00:33:39

And I was like please get on our account.

558

: 00:33:41

I said, all right, let me

hear what they have to say.

559

: 00:33:43

And it was just really more of curiosity.

560

: 00:33:45

And it was just a 15 minute call.

561

: 00:33:47

And I was like the person who I was

speaking to had the worst internet.

562

: 00:33:51

They weren't.

563

: 00:33:52

And I got a date.

564

: 00:33:53

She's Oh, I'm sorry.

565

: 00:33:53

I have really bad internet.

566

: 00:33:54

And I'm like, okay, but you're talking to

me about getting up and doing this talk.

567

: 00:34:00

and there was no question

about what do you do, angie?

568

: 00:34:03

And I said to her at the end,

I go, so what's the cost?

569

: 00:34:05

And she's it's 995 if you

want to do it in person.

570

: 00:34:10

And it's 795 if you

want to do it virtually.

571

: 00:34:14

And I was like, No, thank you.

572

: 00:34:17

But it was just very so

unprofessional to me.

573

: 00:34:21

This was just somebody who was like, Hey,

let me reach out to somebody on LinkedIn

574

: 00:34:24

who calls himself a coach or, and, or

a speaker and see if I can entice them.

575

: 00:34:29

And if I get enough people, I'm making

money, I'm putting together a little

576

: 00:34:33

mini webinar and calling it this summit.

577

: 00:34:36

To your point, John, there definitely are

legit, very legit ways, but if you're not

578

: 00:34:44

seasoned, you're not going to know that.

579

: 00:34:46

If you're not trained to kind of have

a little bit of a keen eye, you're

580

: 00:34:51

not really, going to know that.

581

: 00:34:54

John: I don't see it now, but maybe

because maybe it's still out there,

582

: 00:34:58

but there's the, these things where

basically they tell you won an award

583

: 00:35:01

and they want to come and present

you with your award and have you

584

: 00:35:03

Angie: I'm sorry.

585

: 00:35:03

John: stuff like that.

586

: 00:35:04

And I was like, pardon my

language, not really but what

587

: 00:35:09

the fuck have I won an award for?

588

: 00:35:10

And so one time, one time, one time I

followed up with this again, thinking

589

: 00:35:15

this sounds like complete bullshit.

590

: 00:35:17

And undoubtedly it was

similar kind of thing to you.

591

: 00:35:20

The internet wasn't great.

592

: 00:35:20

I could hear a fan going

in the room as well.

593

: 00:35:23

It sounded wherever they are, they

can't even afford air conditioning.

594

: 00:35:26

It was all very dodgy.

595

: 00:35:28

And and it was just like all the red

flags were there, but sometimes Our ego

596

: 00:35:33

lets us think that they really want us.

597

: 00:35:35

Somebody really wants me to speak.

598

: 00:35:36

Somebody would want to give me

a reward And our ego flashes up.

599

: 00:35:39

And then the red flags get ignored.

600

: 00:35:41

I think maybe kind of where that.

601

: 00:35:43

and then you've handed over your money

and they never seen or heard from again.

602

: 00:35:48

And I tell you with

these people, I was like.

603

: 00:35:49

All right, do you have a website I can

look at I can find out a little bit more

604

: 00:35:52

about that No, we don't have a website.

605

: 00:35:54

It's private invitation.

606

: 00:35:55

Only you don't have a website.

607

: 00:35:57

You don't have a web presence.

608

: 00:35:58

You don't have

609

: 00:35:58

Angie: Yeah.

610

: 00:35:59

John: No.

611

: 00:35:59

No, this is private this is invitation

only Yeah, this is bullshit.

612

: 00:36:04

Bye it was like that

613

: 00:36:05

Angie: that.

614

: 00:36:05

Actually.

615

: 00:36:06

How I ended the call with this person was

listen, can you send me an email with all

616

: 00:36:10

the pertinent information, your website?

617

: 00:36:12

I said, cause I've never heard of you.

618

: 00:36:14

I did look them up before

there was nothing talking

619

: 00:36:17

about this bloppy blossom it.

620

: 00:36:19

So this is somebody who is literally just

going, I just want to take your money.

621

: 00:36:24

You're seven 95 or you're nine 95 and.

622

: 00:36:27

You will not ever see us.

623

: 00:36:28

And I asked how many people,

Oh, it'll be, two rooms.

624

: 00:36:31

And it was just so point that I'm

making, I can go on and on about

625

: 00:36:34

this conversation, but literally

is you definitely need to have

626

: 00:36:38

some kind of training and this.

627

: 00:36:42

And I would say that because coaching is

so different in this way, Then speaking

628

: 00:36:47

or speaking is so different in this way.

629

: 00:36:49

You really do need more, you do, you

definitely need some guidance here.

630

: 00:36:55

I would say, it was much easier, even,

in hindsight, it was much easier to

631

: 00:37:01

get a coaching practice off the ground

than it was for me to get my speaking,

632

: 00:37:06

that speaking piece up off the ground,

knowing what I knew, I was already

633

: 00:37:10

seasoned, trainer, coach, all the things.

634

: 00:37:13

So I would definitely advise it

even If you're not giving John

635

: 00:37:17

a call because I'm going to plug

John all day because he's awesome.

636

: 00:37:20

I was getting some advice from him

this morning myself, but somebody to

637

: 00:37:24

help guide you through this process.

638

: 00:37:26

And there's tons of companies out there.

639

: 00:37:29

If you Googled it, all these

companies are going to pop up.

640

: 00:37:32

I'm going to say, come to the real deal.

641

: 00:37:34

Talk to Johnny Old Ball here.

642

: 00:37:35

He's awesome.

643

: 00:37:37

John: I say, look, I'll say this as well.

644

: 00:37:38

If you think, Oh, is that

something that John does?

645

: 00:37:41

Yeah, he absolutely does.

646

: 00:37:42

I do.

647

: 00:37:43

And this is the perfect time maybe to

check out my other podcast, which has

648

: 00:37:46

been running somewhat longer than this

one, which is called Present Influence.

649

: 00:37:50

And this is what I talk about there.

650

: 00:37:51

I talk about professional speaking.

651

: 00:37:54

I talk about getting up on stage to talk

about putting your thoughts together, how

652

: 00:37:58

to present, how to be a great speaker.

653

: 00:38:00

Bye.

654

: 00:38:00

That's all on there.

655

: 00:38:01

So come and check, come and join

me there and bring guests onto

656

: 00:38:04

that show regularly as well.

657

: 00:38:05

So it's not just me, you get a

wealth of experts there as well.

658

: 00:38:09

And I'm very selective

659

: 00:38:10

Angie: He's very snooty

about who he selects.

660

: 00:38:12

I'm just saying, but

that's a good thing, right?

661

: 00:38:15

This is a good thing.

662

: 00:38:16

We don't want, this is not just a

hodgepodge of people to give you

663

: 00:38:20

information on things that are

not pertinent to why you're there.

664

: 00:38:23

So it's definitely a great

665

: 00:38:25

John: Yeah

666

: 00:38:26

As we wrap things up for today I think

it's very clear from everything we

667

: 00:38:29

talked about that if you have your

own coaching business Even if that's

668

: 00:38:33

something you want to do or certainly

if you want to be a contender a known

669

: 00:38:37

coach you have to be getting out there

and speaking and that might start

670

: 00:38:42

with some very simple stages It might

start at a local toastmasters club.

671

: 00:38:46

It could start anywhere but you have

to start getting some stage time and

672

: 00:38:49

getting out there speaking and You

If you have your own stuff, if you

673

: 00:38:53

have your own IP, then you should

be able to put some stuff together.

674

: 00:38:58

this is what Angie's

working on at the moment.

675

: 00:39:00

Put your stuff together to be

able to go out there and deliver

676

: 00:39:04

your IP from the stage as well.

677

: 00:39:06

To be able to do that with media and

other places that start to get you

678

: 00:39:10

known for who you are and what you do.

679

: 00:39:13

Absolutely a great strategy.

680

: 00:39:14

Highly

681

: 00:39:15

Angie: Absolutely love that great episode.

682

: 00:39:18

So what are you gonna do.

683

: 00:39:22

John: Go and take some action is

what we'd invite you to do and

684

: 00:39:24

let us know your thoughts as Well,

tell us what you're going to do.

685

: 00:39:26

You can leave us a voicemail go to www.

686

: 00:39:29

speakpipe.

687

: 00:39:30

com forward slash the coaching clinic

podcast and leave us a voicemail

688

: 00:39:33

absolutely free to do and we'd love to

hear from you And what are your thoughts

689

: 00:39:37

or share with us on any of the social

media postings that you might see from us

690

: 00:39:40

come and connect With us on linkedin and

if you are interested in coaching and you

691

: 00:39:45

think i'd like to work with Angie Or i'd

like to maybe work with John Get in touch.

692

: 00:39:49

We would love to hear from you, but

that's pretty much it from this week.

693

: 00:39:52

Next week, we're going to

be talking about podcasts.

694

: 00:39:55

So don't miss that.

695

: 00:39:57

Angie: absolutely.

696

: 00:39:58

Bye for now