Renewal Conversations: Enhancing Client Retention in Coaching
Navigating Client Renewals: Strategies and Insights for Coaches
summary
In this episode, hosts John and Angie discuss the intricacies of handling client renewals in coaching.
Angie is introduced to the concept of auto-renewals, a system John has successfully implemented for over ten years to streamline the renewal process.
They explore the practical benefits of auto-renewals and suggest best practices, such as providing notifications to clients well ahead of the renewal date to avoid uncomfortable situations like surprise charges.
The conversation touches on the importance of maintaining the coaching relationship and how discussing renewals effectively is crucial for client retention.
They also share personal experiences regarding when it might be appropriate to decline a renewal, stressing the importance of client-coach compatibility.
Finally, John and Angie emphasize evaluating the client's journey to showcase growth and value, positioning renewals as part of a continued journey rather than a separate transactional occurrence.
keywords
coaching, renewal conversations, auto-renewal, client relationships, coaching business, client reflection, managing expectations, coaching value, coaching dynamics, coaching strategies
takeaways
- Renewal conversations should start early in the coaching process.
- Auto-renewal can simplify the coaching relationship.
- Client reflection is crucial for recognizing progress.
- Managing client expectations is key to successful renewals.
- Coaches should be prepared for difficult renewal decisions.
- Building rapport can make renewal discussions easier.
- A smooth renewal process benefits both coach and client.
- Understanding the business side of coaching is essential.
- Reflection helps clients see their growth journey.
- Coaches should aim to enhance the client experience.
titles
- Reflecting on Client Journeys
- The Business of Coaching Renewals
Sound Bites
- "I have several renewal conversations coming up."
- "My clients are set to auto-renew."
00:00 Introduction and Dilemma
01:33 Auto-Renewal Concept
02:39 Practicalities and Success of Auto-Renewal
04:33 Client Engagement and Renewal Strategy
14:17 Handling Difficult Clients
17:17 Building Strong Client Relationships
34:24 Final Thoughts and Call to Action
Transcript
Hey, John.
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:John: Angie.
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:Angie: So I have an interesting dilemma.
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:I have several renewal conversations
coming up in the next couple of weeks.
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:John: and how do you handle that?
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:Angie: So the dilemma that I have
is that they're all so different.
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:And I feel like maybe this time I didn't
plan early enough for these conversations.
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:John: Well, I don't really have those
kinds of conversations at all, but
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:what do you need to say to them?
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:Angie: Well, wait a minute.
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:What do you mean?
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:You don't have those conversations at all.
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:John: Well, my, my clients
are set to auto renew.
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:So I tell them at the start, if
they want to cancel, they have
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:to let me know and they'll get
notification when it's coming up.
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:Angie: Oh, that is so interesting.
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:I think we need to talk about
that in today's episode.
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:John: I think we should get to it.
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:Let's start the show.
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:Not
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:Angie: So I love that.
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:I don't, I don't, I, what you just
said just kind of like blew me away
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:because it never even occurred to
me to have a client on auto renew.
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:That, to me, is like
this whole new concept.
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:So tell me about that.
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:Yeah.
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:John: not coaches?
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:It really just became a practicality
that made a lot of sense.
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:And I would say I don't
do it with all my clients.
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:Like some clients are very clear.
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:They just want to maybe
go for a cycle coaching.
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:And I'm not going to put them in
ultra renew if that's the case.
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:No, if they want to carry on, they're
going to have to let me know after that.
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:But just out of practicality for having
to potentially enter payment details and
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:get a new agreement with them every single
time the renewal was coming up and was
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:a bit of a pain in the backside and also
sometimes reminding clients about renewal
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:does also refresh their memory of it was
just maybe not a bad thing of do I really
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:want to, do I really want to stay in this?
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:It perhaps puts in those sorts of doubts.
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:It's stuff that you want to
speak with them about anyway.
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:But I think if you, for me, it just
creates a continuation in the coaching
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:relationship, where it's like, they're
going to get notifications that
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:the renewals coming up, I'm going
to remind them that the renewal is
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:coming up and that if they want to
cancel it, they need to let me know.
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:So they still have that opportunity,
but I don't have to worry about whether
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:they want to switch that, whether they
want to change their credit card or
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:anything like that, unless they need to.
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:Or having to update re
enter payment details.
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:So it's really, it's an admin thing to a
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:greater degree.
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:Angie: that is just so interesting.
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:And you've had success with this.
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:John: It's worked incredibly well
with clients for, I think, been
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:doing it for at least 10 years.
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:Angie: Color me shocked, everybody,
because again, it's not even, it's not
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:even a concept that I had ever thought of.
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:thought about.
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:It didn't even cross my mind.
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:And I don't know why, to be honest,
because you know me, when it
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:comes to admin, I'm all about ease
and I don't want to be bothered.
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:So that's a pretty interesting, that's
a pretty interesting approach to it.
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:John: I think it is one that you
have to stay on top of as a coach.
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:If you're going to do it, the last
thing you want is to be that they're
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:getting the notification they get
of renewal is the bank alert telling
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:them that the payment's gone out.
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:That is not what you want because that's
usually the point at which they forgot
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:about it or they suddenly don't remember
that there was an auto renewal and
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:they're going to be pissed off with it.
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:You don't want any of that.
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:So, I've dealt with all that stuff,
dealt with all that stuff very early on
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:in the game that it is worth, ideally
you want to have a notification a month
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:out, two weeks out, the week before.
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:And a couple of days before, and I know
it sounds like a lot, but that's the sort
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:of stuff that you can set on autopilot and
so that they know that payment's coming.
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:And then really in terms of renewal,
all you need to do as a coach
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:is remind them that's coming up.
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:And as we've said in other episodes,
as you rightly brought up, want to
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:be checking in with them along the
journey that they're getting the
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:benefit and value of coaching anyway.
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:But.
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:Maybe we don't necessarily want to have
that conversation as part of the are
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:you going to renew with me as well?
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:Because then it seems very like those
two things have to be having the
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:same talked about in the same time.
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:It's well, we can actually talk
about the value at other times.
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:And we don't really have to
get into a new conversation.
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:I find it's better, which
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:Angie: listen, and I can't say that
I'm going to automatically, I'm
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:actually signing on a new client today.
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:I'm not sure if I would
throw that out there yet.
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:I think I'd want to configure it to a way
that works for me because, I don't know.
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:I don't, I have to, may
have to process and absorb.
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:I think it's a great concept.
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:So I'm definitely not saying
Oh, I would never do that.
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:When I talk about reading, when
I think about renewals, a lot of
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:coaches don't even think about that.
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:Right.
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:Which I think is why we're talking
about it today is that they really don't
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:think about, well, I'll worry about that
when I get to it because to them it's
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:like another whole sales conversation.
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:So your idea kind of like eliminates that.
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:But they do, they feel like,
I just got them to sign up.
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:I'm not going to worry about renewing them
until the end, which is a fatal mistake.
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:I think, because for me, which this
is, you and I talked about this earlier
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:today renewal begins the conversation,
the renewal conversation begins at
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:the very beginning of coaching, right?
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:It shouldn't be.
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:And this is a bad practice.
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:It shouldn't be something that
we suddenly just bring up at
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:the end of the last session that
we've got scheduled with them.
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:It's too late by then they
are mentally gearing down.
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:They are mentally gearing down because
they know it's coming to an end and
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:there's a difference in their energy.
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:Okay.
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:The difference is when they
start coaching, they're excited,
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:they're, they're like ramped
up, they're ready to go.
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:But as they go through the journey,
if they go, Oh Angie, I have 12
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:sessions with Angie and I'm at
session 10 and I always notice it.
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:Session 10 is around
where they kind of start.
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:I'm not going to say pulling away.
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:But I don't think that they have
the same energy regarding coaching.
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:So at that session, when I start
to see that shift, I absolutely
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:will start talking about the value.
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:I will start talking about, what the
challenges still are, because I think when
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:we also, and I think you do this right,
do you have a package like my, some of
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:my packages are no less than 12 sessions.
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:I know where this is going to happen
with them and I don't want them
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:to look at it like, this is great,
in these 12 sessions, I'm just
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:going to be this brand new person.
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:I tell them from the beginning,
these, this package is the first
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:leg of the journey, period.
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:I don't justify it.
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:I don't lost my word.
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:I don't justify it and I don't
promote it per se in that way.
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:Okay.
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:I just say this particular
space is 12 sessions and this
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:is what I'll be covering.
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:So I kind of think that.
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:In the vein that you're talking about,
which it's not auto renewal, but I am
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:already telling them that there's more.
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:I'm already telling them that.
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:And I know that, right?
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:I know that there's going to be more.
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:So that I think is the preparation,
how I lay the groundwork for what
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:the expectation will be later.
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:And
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:John: is what we call seeding.
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:You're seeding the future work together.
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:Super important.
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:Whether the clients I do in all have
an auto renewal generally in there
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:for 16 sessions which auto renews.
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:And so the very first session, the very
first session, we have a conversation
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:about that because we're having a bit
more get to know each other and get
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:into what they really want to work on.
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:And also we're going to say, okay,
Wayne, and this is the first of
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:our 16 sessions for this cycle.
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:And remember that there is going to be
an auto renewal towards the end of it.
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:Of course, we're going to stay in
contact about how things are going.
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:No renewal is going to go.
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:And I'll, I have to reassure this.
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:No renewal is going to go
through unless you've agreed.
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:Like we've checked, we will check it.
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:You'll get notifications by email.
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:You'll hear from me.
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:If at any point you don't want
that, or we, I don't hear from
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:you, then we're not going to.
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:The auto renewal is not
going to get through.
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:So if, for example, if you ever really
have that much of a situation where
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:you're, where your clients kind of
disappear and they're not showing up
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:for sessions that they booked in and
stuff, it happens from time to time,
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:but if that's the situation and the
renewals coming up, I'm going to cancel
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:the renewal because they're not going
to, there's a good chance they're
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:not looking at the notifications.
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:And also a good chance that when they
get the notification from their bank,
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:they're going to be really angry with me.
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:And
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:Angie: and
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:it's a pain in the butt for you too to
you know what, for you to give a refund?
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:Aye aye.
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:John: Yeah.
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:Reverse reversing credit
card charges and stuff.
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:It is, it costs, it ends
up costing you money.
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:Angie: Right.
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:John: Yeah, it's not good.
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:It's not where you want to be.
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:Angie: Well, interestingly, so I don't
make it, and I wanna make sure that I'm
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:being clear I don't sit here and vomit
renewal from the very beginning, right?
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:Although it's A reference to I will,
if I find an opportunity, I want
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:to be clear about this as well.
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:If I find it a genuine opportunity to
reference it, then I will reference it.
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:One of the things I think I've said
this to you, one of the things that I do
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:toward the end of those sessions though,
and this is important for me to do as
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:a coach with the client as well, is.
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:I kind of give them a little bit of
that homework assignment and I'm, I
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:asked them specifically the second to
last session to go back through their
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:notes and the notes that I've sent them.
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:Look at the journey.
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:I want them to read it like a book
almost like here's chapters, right?
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:Look at it in terms of chapters.
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:I am telling you unequivocally.
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:Every single time I have never, ever
had a client come back and go, yeah,
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:I didn't find that to be valuable.
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:They come back and they're shocked.
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:Yeah, they're shocked.
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:They're excited and they
actually see, right?
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:This is how I get them to visualize
where they started, where they are and
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:I'll ask them, so look at the journey.
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:What do you think is most
important to come next?
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:Because I'm getting them
to buy in, so to speak.
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:I'm getting them to kind of
look at this as a longer, right?
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:I can tell them at the
beginning, but until they see
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:it, they're not really buying in.
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:They're not, they're just Hey, let's
just get started and see how things go.
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:So that has been a specific
tool that I have used that has
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:absolutely brought that value.
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:And really help them to see their journey
in front of them because they forget.
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:Yeah.
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:John: The principle.
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:of hedonic adaptation, right?
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:If you've read Thinking,
Fast and Slow, great book.
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:We normalize growth, achievement, or
positive or negative developments in our
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:lives within a couple of weeks, generally.
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:That becomes our, it's
just our normal now.
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:So, like, all the good stuff that
you achieve with your clients, unless
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:you actually, Recap stuff with them,
or get them to recap their journey.
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:They're not really going to
see the full growth journey.
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:They're not going to really
relate back to where they were
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:because this is their new normal.
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:And it feels like you've
always kind of been there.
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:You've always been that way.
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:And it's just not the reality.
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:But you're right, we don't need to
harp on about renewals because then it
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:just becomes a bit pushy and like any
sales kind of pushiness, people tend
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:to have a lot of resistance to that.
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:For me, it's part of, in the very
first call, it's part of the logistics
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:for how we're going to work together.
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:That's where that piece comes up.
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:We don't spend very long on it.
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:I'm going to talk about it.
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:I don't fully expect that they're
going to remember in two months
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:time that we talked about auto
renewal as part of that logistics.
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:But then I don't also expect
that they're going to remember
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:everything we did say on that call.
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:So, there possibly is stuff that
could do, I could do on top of that
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:to really secure those logistics.
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:I probably would be good to actually Think
about this now I think I will implement to
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:send out a follow up email after we've had
that call saying, Hey, look, here's just a
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:reminder of the logistics we talked about.
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:Remember, there's going to be, even then
it's not foolproof, but we just were those
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:things that helped them to recall that.
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:And also when you get the thing
of, Oh I didn't realize this
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:was an auto renewal program.
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:As I know, we talked
about this and here it is.
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:I sent to you all this time ago.
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:So, it's easy.
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:I know it's easy to forget about
these things, but at least you
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:can show that you talked about it.
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:But yeah, we don't want to harp on
about it, but as a coach, you need to
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:be thinking about it and you need to
be thinking about the lifetime value.
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:Because we've said before, we've had
clients like, I think generally for
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:me, the sort of average client length
has been in most coaching situations
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:around three years of working with
somebody, which is pretty decent.
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:But certainly I've had some that have
been five years, seven years, even one
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:up to 12 years, it's like the lifetime
value of a client can be enormous.
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:Angie: I mean, listen, this is
and here, let me bring out the
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:uncomfortable part of this.
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:Which is the business side of it.
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:Now I would say to you that I
don't know if you've ever had this
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:experience, but one time I opted not
to renew a client that wanted to renew.
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:And it was a lot of money and I
said no and the reason why was
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:because I don't know if it was
because the client was really just
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:against, everything was a challenge.
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:Everything was a challenge back at
me, and I kind of had to say this,
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:it was a very, it was very draining.
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:And it was funny because I didn't
pick up on any of the abrasion
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:during the discovery call.
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:I thought that we were
going to be a good match.
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:And at the end I said to this client this
has been great, this is what we've done.
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:And I still do the same thing.
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:I still did.
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:I knew I didn't want to renew.
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:I went back, I made them
look at the journey.
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:And I gave them some options, I w I
would like to, refer you to somebody
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:and they were kind of flabbergasted.
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:What do you mean?
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:Like we've done this work.
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:And I felt a little bit guilty because
I felt like I was leaving them in the
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:lurch and I told them flat out, I kind
of feel like maybe there's a better
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:fit for you with a different coach.
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:And I did make a referral.
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:I gave them two referrals, actually talked
to these people, and they were like,
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:well, why don't you, they finally asked
me, why don't you want to work with me?
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:And my answer was, I don't think I'm
going to be able to bring you the
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:value that you are actually capable of.
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:There's something missing.
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:And I want to make sure that
you are best taken care of.
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:And I, again, it wasn't in the moment.
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:It was very difficult because I thought
I, what I tried to do was plan out
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:like every response I could give.
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:And then I thought, well, you'd
have to be able to tell them why.
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:And so finally I said to them, do
you think, let me ask you honestly,
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:do you feel like you showed up as
you're at, as you're super intentional
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:for every session, prepared for
feedback, prepared for all the
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:things that I did that you asked for.
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:By the way, you wanted more challenge.
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:I gave you more challenge.
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:I'm getting into this for a minute,
but, and they were like, you know
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:what, I kind of had to turn it around.
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:I had to ask them to reflect.
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:Because in their eyes, it was like, we
were connectively the greatest thing
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:since sliced bread, and we were not.
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:I didn't want to say to them
you're fucking exhausting.
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:I have a feeling that's not
gonna make it out there.
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:But I could tell a lot of my sessions
are exhausting, but mostly In a deep way.
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:So there was just something that
wasn't working and I knew I did
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:not want to work with this client,
but I also wanted to make sure that
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:their feelings didn't get hurt.
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:So I really had to, I even said to
them, even though we've done great
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:work, like that doesn't mean that we
that this is the best fit for you.
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:So I really had to shift that.
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:But so that, that happened one
time where I was like, no way,
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:I'm not doing this anymore.
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:but I feel like I get really deep into
it with my clients and even though we
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:talked about like rapport and where
do we draw that line, I get excited
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:about people's journeys, right?
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:Cause I start to visualize it.
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:And it makes it so easy for
me to have that conversation
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:because I'm genuinely excited.
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:About it.
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:So, of course, I hate the, and this
is where your concept, I think,
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:might come in, is, well, okay, so now
let's talk about credit cards again.
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:It just, to me, feels awkward because
I've now built a relationship with
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:them of trust and all the things,
but now I have to go back and say,
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:okay, credit card number, please.
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:John: And those money conversations
are the other ones that coaches
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:tend to struggle with the most.
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:Which is why I think if you can
bypass it and set up a more automatic
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:system and it's not going to be right
for everyone to do it, you're going
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:to have to make your judgment as to
whether it's the right or effective
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:thing to do for you and your clients.
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:But it does bypass that.
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:Not completely.
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:You may still have a situation where
you're trying to process their card
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:for renewal, and it doesn't go through.
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:And that could be a number
of things like that.
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:Sometimes the bank rejects it because
unexpected payment to them they haven't
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:told the bank it's coming through.
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:Sometimes it's that they've changed their
card or they've updated it or whatever.
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:It could be any number of things.
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:So you still have to then go back to it.
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:If you have a VA or assistant or
something who can do that's something
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:I would definitely try and get,
pass off to someone else so that you
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:don't have to have that conversation.
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:That email guy that, hey, look,
let me know when you're around.
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:We need to update your card details
or be able to give them a form.
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:Or a box to do that more automatically
so that you don't really have
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:to be a part of that process.
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:And it's kind of good for you as the
coach to not really If you can, to not
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:get into that sort of conversation that
you're also the salesperson and the coach
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:is that sometimes it's an unavoidable,
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:Angie: I, yeah, I have to tell you,
the more clients I get, the more I
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:couldn't agree with that statement
more because I feel like it just
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:changes again in the beginning.
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:Nobody knows anybody yet.
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:So it is a little, it is transactional.
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:Our relationship in the beginning
with them is very transactional.
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:And even though we're not the best of
friends and we're not having coffee
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:per se when we've talked about this,
I've had clients tell me things
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:that they've never said to another,
never breathed to another human.
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:So there is rapport there.
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:There is a relationship.
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:And I feel like in those moments it
gets a little bit more uncomfortable
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:to say, Hey, by the way, John sorry,
but your credit card didn't go through.
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:Do you have another, because
now I'm changing the dynamic.
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:I don't like it.
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:Right?
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:I don't like having to shift that
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:John: Yeah, and there's, and I've had
stuff with clients before, whereas
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:I'm , you can see the fear coming up
in their eyes of, are we shit, are we
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:gonna need to do some coaching about
this because my card just go through it.
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:It's that.
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:It's just awkward.
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:And anything that's jarring to
the coaching relationship, if
384
:it can be avoided is better.
385
:So, so whilst there's the auto renewal
thing sound, some people hate it.
386
:Some people don't like it but
nearly always get people to agree.
387
:Unless there's always going to be those
clients who say, I'm not happy with that.
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:I'm not prepared to be on
an auto renewal system.
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:Fine.
390
:Take them off it.
391
:But they're probably, but they're
probably only going to be a handful of it.
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:It's not worth having an argument about.
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:As I, if you're not comfortable
with it, that's fine.
394
:Just say, and we'll take
you off auto renewal.
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:But for ease.
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:of for ease of flow in the coaching
and to keep things continuous and to
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:get to a point where we don't have
to have any gaps in your coaching
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:or be having any processing issues.
399
:When it comes time to go through if
that's all been set up to go smoothly
400
:and you get notified and informed by
emails and by me then there's no, there's
401
:going to be a continuous flow to your
coaching and it's going to benefit you.
402
:It's going to be easier for all of us.
403
:The same as you don't really.
404
:Any kind of membership thing you
have, if you had to, if you had to
405
:pay into your credit card details
for Netflix every single month,
406
:it would be a pain in the ass.
407
:Right?
408
:So, so they give you.
409
:Angie: 15 a month versus 6, 000,
12, 000, like whatever that is.
410
:Like it's a big, I think it's a big, like
I feel like if I were to get, And I'm
411
:being, again, I'm being devil's advocate.
412
:I'm like, okay, how would I feel
on the opposite side of that?
413
:I think that you get away, you get, it's
easier to kind of Make that the structure
414
:because you are, of course, talking about
it in the beginning and you're setting
415
:it out like right there, here it is, the
table is set and it's all ready for you.
416
:But I do think the big difference between
that hesitation, maybe for them, might be
417
:that it's not a 15 renewal or 30 renewal,
418
:John: Well, maybe it's maybe
it's, the golf club or the private
419
:members club or whatever it is
that has a much higher membership.
420
:I would still much rather have
a, an email or a letter saying,
421
:Hey, your renewals coming up.
422
:You don't need to do anything
unless you want to cancel.
423
:I'd much rather have that.
424
:And have a continuous flow.
425
:It's okay, I don't actually need to do
anything other than take notice that
426
:you've advised me that I don't need to
do anything unless I want to cancel.
427
:Angie: Yeah.
428
:Yeah.
429
:Yeah.
430
:Yeah.
431
:No.
432
:And I think that's a great approach
because I think I've seen coaches that I'm
433
:training that I've trained, they fall off.
434
:They lose a tremendous amount of
business at that renewal point.
435
:Right.
436
:When you have Transcribed The warmest,
this is what you need to think about.
437
:This is the business side
of the business, okay?
438
:Is that you now have the warmest
lead you could have because
439
:they've already experienced you.
440
:So of course you want to take advantage
of the opportunity and I don't mean that
441
:we just want to keep renewing people
because I told you I've said no, right?
442
:If it makes sense, obviously too,
if somebody in session seven, they
443
:loses their job and they're
struggling to put food on the table.
444
:I still have a renewal conversation
with them, but it's very different.
445
:How do I know?
446
:I've had that.
447
:I've had that happen.
448
:I actually had that
449
:happen twice.
450
:So it's a different conversation.
451
:I don't even want them to renew unless
they're like, and one of them did it.
452
:And one of them was like, Oh no, I
need you to help me get past this and
453
:into the job and onto the next thing.
454
:And they were willing to just
keep going and that's up to them.
455
:But it's you the point that I'm
making is that you have this
456
:very warm relationship by now and
this is your golden opportunity.
457
:You have a much higher chance of
somebody renewing with you than going
458
:out and finding another cold new person
to fill that space in your calendar.
459
:John: and I think realistically, anything
you can do to reduce the friction in
460
:continuing a coaching relationship is
going to benefit you and your clients.
461
:So, which is why Kind of like the
processes we're talking about.
462
:I love what you say particularly
about getting them to review the
463
:work that you've been doing together.
464
:Because, if you are waiting until kind
of penultimate or last session, to
465
:have that conversation with them, they
then have to remember in the moment.
466
:And I don't know about you, how
good are you at remembering a whole
467
:journey you've had especially?
468
:In the moment, or I can sometimes
forget what I walked into a room for.
469
:How do you expect me to remember all this,
470
:Angie: Where's my
471
:John: this on,
472
:Angie: I'm talking on it?
473
:John: yeah.
474
:Where are my glasses?
475
:Oh,
476
:Angie: Right.
477
:John: All these kinds of things, but we
just, we're just not that good in, in
478
:the moment of remembering everything.
479
:So you're more likely to think.
480
:Oh, your thoughts are far more
likely to go to, Ah, this is
481
:actually quite expensive, isn't it?
482
:Rather than thinking
about the value of it.
483
:Yeah.
484
:You just think about the price of it.
485
:And those two things are different.
486
:Angie: Well, another thing that I
do, because I don't know about you,
487
:I've seen this a lot today, huh?
488
:But I have experienced, I do experience,
I should say, often clients saying
489
:to me Angie, what do you think?
490
:Like they're looking for my opinion
491
:or no.
492
:Just in general, across the
journey, there'll be, it can be any
493
:situation in that or circumstance
and they'll say, what do you think?
494
:Or, sometimes they even
do ask me for validation.
495
:Do you think I'm doing okay?
496
:Like by coaching is some kind of task.
497
:So I'm like, so I don't ever go there.
498
:I always turn that right back and
say, I am not here as that I'm here
499
:to be objective and to help you.
500
:However, they also find value that when
I ask them to go back and do that review,
501
:I do it as well because I am not all
knowing I forget where my damn glasses
502
:are when they're right on my face.
503
:Right.
504
:So the reality is I give myself
that opportunity as well.
505
:And when we get into that
conversation, I'm excited.
506
:And I tell them, I am going to be
sharing some of what I observed
507
:as your coach in terms of.
508
:epiphanies, like whatever the word
is, like depending on the person
509
:and advancements that they've made.
510
:So I let them speak first and tell
me like, what do you think your top
511
:three really great advancements were?
512
:And what do you think your
biggest challenge is right now?
513
:Give me, what is that?
514
:I don't even ask for three, one, what's
your biggest challenge right now from
515
:this point, this leg of the journey.
516
:And then I'll go back and say, well, if
and I tell them in advance, I'm going
517
:to come into that session next time.
518
:And I'm going to tell you what I've seen.
519
:They love that.
520
:And I'm very careful.
521
:of not patting them on the back
because even that is a judgment.
522
:It's a positive, but I'm
not here to validate them.
523
:Remember that.
524
:So I will be very structured about it, but
they love that I see what they've done.
525
:And they'll ask me, and I'll tell them
what I think right now if, Objectively,
526
:what I see today is the biggest challenge.
527
:And they love that because
now it's like, You see me.
528
:It just has changed the relationships
I've had with people because I'm not
529
:telling them like, you did really great.
530
:It's not for me to say if it was great.
531
:Maybe to them it was fantastic
and they think great sucks.
532
:I don't want to see things
that are going to set them off.
533
:So I think it's just a really
good opportunity to show them
534
:a vision of what could be next.
535
:John: Well, you regularly mention
the analogy of being the pace car
536
:as the coach which is good because
you're not the referee, you're not
537
:the judge, you're the pace car.
538
:So, not here to give you the red card or
the yellow card when you go on a track.
539
:I'm not here to blow the whistle.
540
:I'm not here to hand you the cup
or hold up the scorecards for you.
541
:It's here to help you pace along the
journey and get where you're going.
542
:Which is far more appropriate, but those
conversations are important to navigate
543
:in that kind of way where you should.
544
:And I know that in the truest form of
coaching and ontological coaching, you
545
:don't really say those things to clients.
546
:I know that.
547
:But but, if you have that kind
of rapport and relationship with
548
:a client, you can say to them,
Hey, look here's where I see it.
549
:And this is from my perspective,
you may or may not agree with it.
550
:And I think you do have to frame it
up in that sense, but I'm willing
551
:to, but I'm willing to give you
what I see if it's a value to you.
552
:Ultimately it is what and what
you think that matters the most.
553
:But if it's helpful to you, here you go.
554
:Angie: No, absolutely.
555
:I mean, listen, I wouldn't recommend that
tactic I think with newer coaches until
556
:you really know how to navigate the words
and the conversation and feel, know who
557
:you're talking to, know your audience.
558
:So I don't highly recommend that
to somebody who's newer yet.
559
:But getting used to having
objective conversations,
560
:obviously, is what we do, right?
561
:And not wanting to tell somebody, even
though you could see the writing on the
562
:wall right in front of them, here it is.
563
:It's not always what isn't
always what's best for them.
564
:And that's the bottom line.
565
:You have to know that it is their journey.
566
:It's not your journey.
567
:So
568
:John: Yeah, that should always be, that
should always be in the coach's mind or
569
:Angie: Sure So I think that renewals are
you know, I think a little bit of you
570
:know I make the joke to the coaches that
I train like Oh, by the way, if you don't
571
:want to have a coach renewal, i'll send
them my way and i'll give you a referral
572
:Get used to having the conversation.
573
:Don't give away The opportunity that
you've created to somebody else, don't
574
:do that, make the best of it, and even
come up with some kind of a framework,
575
:if you want, like John and I have been
talking about how we do things, right,
576
:how we're having these conversations,
he's setting up an auto renewal, but
577
:there's a conversation around that
some best practices, and I feel the
578
:same, that You remember that they are
a warm lead, even though they're the
579
:client, their next round of coaching
you're making, this is a lead for the
580
:next spot on your calendar to fill it.
581
:Why would we squander that?
582
:It doesn't make any sense.
583
:So having something in place, I think.
584
:I think it's very important.
585
:Sorry, I just choked on myself
as I'm drinking my coffee.
586
:John: stay.
587
:Stay with us.
588
:Stay with
589
:us.
590
:Angie.
591
:Angie: I'm trying
592
:John: Give yourself a pat on the back.
593
:Yeah, for the renewal
stuff is really important.
594
:Have this in mind because unless you
have a kind of program or process,
595
:that's really only gonna last.
596
:Three months, four months,
six months, whatever.
597
:And that's kind of the end of it.
598
:There's no real need for a
new, although, okay, fine.
599
:This isn't something you
need to worry about so much.
600
:I mean, perhaps want to be thinking
about referrals rather than
601
:renewals to make sure that you're
getting that additional value.
602
:refer to our episode
about referrals as well.
603
:But other than that, you do want
to think about what's the potential
604
:lifetime value of a client if you do
have a kind of coaching process that
605
:could go on and on for them and make
that as smooth and frictionless for
606
:you and them as you possibly can.
607
:It's going to enhance your
coaching relationship.
608
:So let's look for the ways of
how can you make this as easy and
609
:smooth without even beneficial.
610
:I think those reviews Of the journey
are really beneficial for them and
611
:for you as well, because coaches
as coaches, we can often find
612
:ourselves feeling a bit, a little bit
unappreciated in a good kind of way.
613
:That's so weird.
614
:I know, but part of our goal is to help
people achieve their outcomes and we want
615
:them to feel that they did it, but we also
do want them really to recognize that we
616
:helped, we were there on the journey with
them and that was beneficial to them.
617
:So, sometimes that can be forgotten
unless you help them to see that
618
:journey that you've taken together
And that's where you come in.
619
:So, you know What else you might think?
620
:Oh, well that's kind of ego stuff
like that You don't want them to
621
:forget that you are the person who
helped them on that journey as well
622
:Angie: Absolutely.
623
:I mean, I can understand why it might
be perceived a little bit as ego,
624
:but.
625
:I would say for most of the
clients that I've, and I don't
626
:know why or how this happened, have
coached with other coaches before.
627
:And I always ask that in my discovery
call, have you ever coached before?
628
:Was it, within your organization,
career coach what did you do?
629
:Who'd you do it with?
630
:And I always ask, what
did you love about that?
631
:What did you really get out of that?
632
:Anything, and now I'm thinking
to myself too, well, they're
633
:not with that person anymore.
634
:What happened?
635
:But I don't want to be like, so what did
you what didn't work, but I want to know.
636
:So if you let them talk long
enough, about what they loved and
637
:liked, what did they value from it?
638
:Whatever word you use they'll
tell you, but they'll go, Oh, John
639
:was great or Andrew was great.
640
:And this is what I did.
641
:And that's where you need to focus, right?
642
:When they say, but, because inevitably
it's going to come up, it's going to
643
:tell you why they did not renew with that
last person, if that was their experience
644
:that they did have some coaching before.
645
:John: You want to be like
mixed a lot and like big butts
646
:I like big butts and I
647
:Angie: Oh, geez.
648
:I know the song.
649
:I'm trying to see the freaking connection.
650
:But
651
:we like big buts.
652
:Yes, I caught on.
653
:I'm a little slow.
654
:Wait,
655
:what time?
656
:Okay, it's only,
657
:It's 5 57 a.
658
:m.
659
:for me.
660
:Give my old brain a minute
to just wake up and catch up
661
:because what time is it for you?
662
:Like one, one o'clock?
663
:John: it's coming up to three
664
:o'clock in the afternoon for me, but
665
:Angie: Bye for now.
666
:John: how about you, as you're listening
to this and all the stuff we talked about,
667
:what questions do you have about renewals?
668
:What stuff is going on for you?
669
:Do you do things in a different way?
670
:Or have you got some ideas for some of the
stuff that we've talked about, how you can
671
:make your renewal process a bit better, or
maybe even to implement a renewal process.
672
:If you haven't had that before,
we'd like to hear from you.
673
:As your thoughts and your actions
regarding what we talked about today.
674
:So you can leave us a
voicemail, go to speakpipe.
675
:com forward slash the
coaching clinic podcast.
676
:We would love to hear your voicemails
and you can leave that for free.
677
:It's all online.
678
:It's all free and we look
forward to hearing from you.
679
:But in the meantime, we'll be back
very soon, perhaps same time next
680
:week with another awesome episode.
681
:So we'll look forward to seeing you then.
